Utah mall reopens after teenÂ’s deadly rampage

Luba · 02-17-2007, 01:28 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17124042/

Investigators were still trying to figure out why Sulejmen Talovic, an 18-year-old Bosnian immigrant, opened fire Monday on shoppers, killing five and injuring four others

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This story troubles me greatly...why would someone just go on a shooting spree and kill people at random...why does this happen so often now? :?

Star · 02-17-2007, 02:16 PM

i was asking that same question when i read it luba. why? things like this didn't happen when i was a teen. why now? what's being done different that it's causing this to happen to our kids? i don't get it.

Luba · 02-17-2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star

i was asking that same question when i read it luba. why? things like this didn't happen when i was a teen. why now? what's being done different that it's causing this to happen to our kids? i don't get it.

I also don't know why it's happening and that's what is so scary about it. Imagine going to the Mall to get a Valentine's gift for your loved one, just happily trying to pick something out, and out of the blue, someone starts shooting, just taking people's lives randomly! Taking as many lives as possible! Why has our world become such a frightening place that even an innocent trip to the Mall can become so deadly. Or crossing the street and being mowed down by a speeding driver who doesn't stop, and other drivers going by not stopping to help like the recent incident in Vancouver. Children being killed in schools where they go innocently to learn. How can these types of horrific crimes be stopped when even the parents don't recognize there is a problem until it's too late?

We are supposed to be so much smarter in this day and age with so much help out there. Why aren't people who have such frightening thoughts trying to get help? I just don't understand...

Vautrin · 02-17-2007, 04:43 PM

Because needing help is considered a weakness - that is the ideology of the individual for you at its worst. Even moreso in the US than elsewhere (China?).

Add to that, the easy availability of guns.

Luba · 02-17-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vautrin

Because needing help is considered a weakness

But don't you think a person with killing on his mind must know he's in trouble, isn't that more important than thinking he's weak?

Vautrin · 02-17-2007, 04:55 PM

Nope, according to the ruling ideology. You have to take care of yourself, and stand up for yourself. It can be a tragic stance, but that is the price we pay for having this part of ideology in existence.

Plus - would you talk for 452352363 hours before you have finally a consult with a psychiatrist approved with all kinds of bureaucrats?

Luba · 02-17-2007, 05:00 PM

How about talking to a Minister, parent, friend, boss, school counselor, doctor, etc. Do these people that take the lives of others have absolutely no one to confide in?

Vautrin · 02-17-2007, 05:07 PM

Minister? If you are into church, mosque, synagogue, perhaps.

Parent? Roughly half the kids grow up with divorced parents. Probably the same percentage of kids grows up with one parent hating (at least not loving) the other. In general the relationships between parents and kids are not that healthy. Plus talking with parents about psychological issues, is like talking with parents about sex. It won't happen for a plethora of reasons.

Friend? Lack of friends could often be contributing to these problems. And still, it is not done to share weaknesses with your friends - more often than not they will get ruthlessly exploited. :?

Boss? Admitting you have problems may mean you will get the sack first. Often not an option. Plus you may be unemployed if you have these thoughts.

school counselor? I don't have the impression that students think highly of their school counselors. And in case of suicidal thoughts, or violent thoughts, the possibility that the counselor notifies the authorities / parents does not seem to be appealing.

Doctor? Will more often than not make it a "pill issue." Medication tends to be expensive, and often not working. A large group of med addicts are the elderly with their barely effective sleeping pills. Plus (I am going by the Dutch now) there is not that much trust in the medical profession in the first place.

But that is already too late. The questions are why people get these thoughts / urges in the first place, what makes it possible to kill half a dozen of people, and why nothing is being done about it, to prevent these occurences?

TKDLady · 02-17-2007, 08:12 PM

If people don't ask for help and if those around them don't see it or don't want to get involved then how do you stop it? You have to admit there is a problem first and your friends and family need to intervene.

Luba · 02-17-2007, 08:24 PM

I wonder if parents or friends actually see a behaviour, a change in a person, but just don't want to believe it is happening or know what to do...I wonder, if as a parent, what one would do or say or believe that such behaviour is happening in their child. Often then, if nothing is done, lives are taken as well as the life of the shooter and how do parents live with that?

Star · 02-17-2007, 08:41 PM

the only thing that i don't agree here with is that even people when i was a teen were messed up but we didn't go out there and kill people jsut for something to do like they do today. people haven't changed as much as some would think they have. back then, to go seek councelling had to be kept a secret or you'd be rediculed.

i think it's more the availability of guns and the justice system has gone lax. deadly combination if you ask me.

Vautrin · 02-18-2007, 02:29 AM

Even if you do see a difference, what do you do? More often than not you ignore it. And when you try to address it, you are being intrusive. Which, half of the time, only motivates these people to become even more secretive. And thus less willing to seek help.

One problem is, seeking help can barely be kept a secret. You have to have an hour's (or more) hole in your agenda for a week. With the stress of being in school 16/5 all the clubs you have to be in, that hole may simply not exist. Even psychological help lines (at least here, don't know about the US / Canada) are not for free. For a psychologist or psychiatrist you need a referral - and trust in these professions is not as high as both professions make it out to be.

The justice system can't do a thing - it is not criminal to mess kids up :?. You can only punish people more severely after the event. And no matter what the punishment, it can't undo the deed.

Over here (and I have no reason to assume it may be different elsewhere) For instance, research has shown, that small investments in playgrounds for kids to play, repay themselves. The kids who have access to these playgrounds tend to have less issues with authority, be healthier, be less mischievous, and to be higher achievers than those who don't. Apparently kids who have less issues with authorities, are a bit more trustful of authority. Now, if only the authorities were able to grasp that ...
So it is no crime for communities here, to time and again violate the laws, with regards to prevention - but it is a crime when a kid becomes messed up and acts on it, partly as a result of that. Something does not sit right there.

Luba · 02-18-2007, 07:47 AM

Okay, how about seeking help on a forum such as this? Or just talking about it and getting these horrific feelings out? If the home doesn't have a computer, cafes and Libraries do....

There just HAS to be a solution! Am I a dreamer??