Any advice

[Guardian]

Hi All,

I am not usually a person that would ask for assistance but in this case its beyond my understanding. Its a long story and I am sure its done for in a way but you never know. On my daughters birthday in december I found an sms quite by accident on my wifes phone with some guy making arrangements to meet. I questioned her about it and she denied anyhting was going on. I left the house later that day as I could not stand being there and could not face her. On New years the truth became evident through further browsing messages on her phone and she finally told me she advertised herself on the web for excitement but claims to have slept only with one guy during working hours at our house. She told me that she did not feel loved or appreciated but I agreed that we could work this out. After this she constantly reminded me how great this guy was in bed and demeaned me telling me I am not the man he is etc. Never the less we continued then she started trying to get me to swing as it is only sex after all. I initially agreed but chickened out. I know I cannot handle that. Anyway it continued to a point where i told her about an indescretion i had 3 years prior. Completely unplanned and definitely not my proudest moment. If there was one moment I could take back that would be it. We seperated again for a few days where she sent me illicit details of the guys she was going to see and promised me pics. Angry i guess. What annoyed me is she promised to break contact and did not. As months progressed we ,seperated, at least twice due to arguments where she began to insult me as a person and belittled me with comments like " You are just jealous because he is way better than you" Each time she asked me to come back. We went to ,couples counselling, together initially and then she refused to go and it was just me for a while. After our last seperation in April we got together. Since then things have seemed to be great we have been away on holiday with the kids, been out, spent time together. There are pet names being used again untill....the other night I find her sending a photo of herself to an unknown e-mail address she says is her account. When I asked her to prove it she tells me there is illicit stuff that will just make angry on that account and its non of my business. I question further and she is speaking with swingers and some sex club owner. She says its not a club its a place. She told me she will not tell me anything as it will just implicate her and I will use it against her. Last night we spoke / argued and came to an agreement that we will stay together just because. I was not comfortable with this as nothing is resolved really and I dont want her living an unhappy life just because. She claims I am a control freak and I am insecure. I would possibly agree that there is an element of this as although I try to trust her its hard to after all the lies I have heard in the last six months. She now uses my indescretion she did not even know about as the entire cause and blames it all on me. Today I am told she is living with me because she does not have the money to move out and that she will do so while she finds someone that loves and respects her and this is what she has been doing from the start. Its unfair and its wrong in my opinion. She says she has no respect for me and keeps trying to twist things in a manner that it can be my fault if we divorce. Almost convincing me to leave by asking questions like why are with someone so terrible. I have my faults I will admit and hey yes i do want to know what she is doing and where she is and I do not feel comfortable sleeping with her because i dont feel good enough for her or anyone else for that matter after all this. I also tend to have a bit of a mean streak that was never there before all this where I get so frustrated with her break things. No where close to her usually in adjoining room and thankfully cheap things. I could never hurt hurt her its not in me thankfully. She says I demand sex and if she says no I get angry. Ofcourse I am going to get upset if you tease me then turn around and go sorry its boring. I dont understand her the reason I have been asking for more is because she advertised herself for this very reason and thought this is what she wants. If I ask ok when is the right time she says she does not know but if I back off and she feels like it and I dont pick it up its sorry you missed out. She has currently left me with some options
1.She will just stick around sleep with me until she finds someone else to love and respect her.
2. I can accept an open marriage where she can sleep around.

Number 1 i can understand everyone is looking for this but hey you dont use someone while you doing it.
Two makes no sense. If she feels used doing this then why would she accept a marriage like this and if not about the sex then what is it. How do I ever go back to trusting this woman. I genuinely love her to death and always will i think and that is why against all advice from family and friends I keep going back.

Sorry if its a long waffle of babble but any ideas anyone.

[xxALONExx]

Wow Guardian. I am so sorry that you are going through all of this with your wife.

At this time I don't have anything helpful to say, but the rest of the good people here at lifesupporters will along shortly to give you some excellent advice.

Mostly I just want to say welcome. This is an amazing place full of people who care. I can speak from experience that they are helping me get through my separation one day at a time.

[Luba]

Guardian, Welcome to Lifesupporters but I have to say I wanted to cry through two readings of your post.

Love is a mysterious thing I've learned! In this case, trading your self-esteem to be treated in such a lowly manner. She's made it clear what she wants, but that's not what you want. There is no trust. You have to ask yourself, is this how you want to live this precious life? She's found an outlet that suits her, and she's making no bones about it. You deserve better than to be treated that way.

I wish I could say something positive about this situation, but at this point it seems to me that you are just heading for more heartache if you stay in it.

[TKDLady]

Welcome to Lifesupporters Guardian. I wish it were under better circumstances. I am afraid I am going to be blunt. Why are you putting up with that? She obviously has no regard for you in any way and is just using you. If you can't get her to leave then I suggest you pack your things and move. Change your accounts to just your name, get her off of anything financial. Protect yourself as much as possible. I know all of this is easy for me to say since it isn't my spouse but no matter how much I loved them I wouldn't and couldn't put up with that. You both want different things in a marriage or relationship and I personally think her's is very unhealthy in many ways. Your mental and physical health is going to suffer if you don't do something positive for yourself. She is unhealthy for you. She needs to stop getting her cake and eating it too. I am sorry if I have hurt you more but I am concerned about you. This isn't healthy in anyway for you. Keep posting and letting us know how things are going. We really do care and want the best for you.

[Guardian]

Thanks all for the advice thus far. It is not very positive but maybe I am hanging onto a thread of hope. Its pretty much the same advice I got from my family in friends in the past. I do love her dearly and everytime I am seperated I miss the children like crazy. I think of not seeing them grow up and just being the guy we have to visit on weekends. When I visit it hurts me thinking I have to leave them again.
I hate that thought like hell I have friends with divorced parents and the dad is always a third wheel somehow. I know I dont deserve this.

Today when she came home she tried to act like nothing had happened
I was amazed so I challenged her on whether she thinks its normal to be with someone just to find someone else. She says it could take 10 years to find someone and she is still here. It could be me she chooses but for the mean time she is looking. She keeps telling me if I knew the truth I would be really angry. She kept threatening me telling me she will call the cops and have me thrown out if I say anything mean and she will lie she has done that before as well. Anyway she started ignoring me so I stood in front of the TV and switched it of. She lost it completely and tried to throw the remote at me when that did not work she started hitting and pushing me. Ok I admit I laughed at her which made it worse but come on she is allowed to behave like that and I am fully to blame for everything. Her answer to me is if I want to stay I must just accept it. Accept what I am not sure as when I ask she tells me which truth do you want to believe the Swinging, The clubs or is it just chatting. Apparently I will never know. The latest is I dont buy her flowers and she no longer cares or respects me. Can a person really put on such a good act and pull the wool over my eyes because 2 days ago I would have sworn she definitely cares. Is this possible? Again she is trying to negotiate why I am with such a terrible person. I dont understand how someone can so blatantly hurt someone. The internet add was done out of vengeance because I apparently pushed her away. She actually told me she was going to do it over dinner once. She said I am going to find another boy to ..... and I brushed it off as an idle threat.

What happened to the girl I met 14 yrs ago and was married to for 8 years. Its a long time and in a way I fear it ending because its not going to be easy for the children, for her or for me. I am reluctant to think things could be better without her.

[Luba]

Guardian, it sounds to me that you will do anything not to uproot the children and you sure get kudos for that! Children DO lose out when parents divorce, but if it's an unhappy home, it's not good for them either. Do you both fight in front of the children? How much of this do they know? Parents don't give enough credit to their children who know more about the situation than parents think.

If you do stay together it may be just for the sake of the children. Are you prepared to live a 'separate' life in the same house and not be angry at what's going on all the time? How much of it can you turn a blind-eye, too?

I would love to say something positive and say things may change with her, but she found a life now that rocks her boat and it may end or may not end sometime soon, or end at all. Do you really think you deserve this kind of life? We are only given one precious life and this kind of existence could lead to tremendous bitterness for you or even depression. Who will your children count on then?

If you do decide that you deserve more than this, can't you try to obtain custody of your children?

[sam]

Guardian,

Hello and welcome to life supporters. I read your post and I am really sorry about the problems you are having with your wife. I know how devastating it can be to be in a one sided relationship. You said that you commited a mistake in the past which may have caused this kind of behavior from your wife, BUT STILL.. I don't think no one deserves to be treated the way your wife has been treating you. I am sorry. You said that you still love her and can't think of a life without her, but until when do you think you can put up with a woman who treats you with no respect and has no regard for your feelings?

I wish and pray that you will already stop hurting. Please come back here anytime you feel like you need a friend. There a lot of people here who I think are truly wise and compassionate and who can also help you and give you all the support you need. Be strong,

[TKDLady]

From what you have said you really need to see a lawyer and get custody of your kids. Your wife doesn't appear to be a good mother, definitely not a good roll model. I am sorry but I don't see a happy ending. You are only hurting yourself and your kids.

[Vautrin]

Agree with TKD here. You are basically providing living arrangements, and some sense of family life for your wife, who only seems to cling to you, because she needs these things.

Any noticeable medical or psychological history on part of your wife that might explain her behavior?

[IvyRose]

Do you think maybe drugs are involved?

[Guardian]

Thanks All.
Last night turned out worse thaqn I could imagine. I just let her be and we kept out of each others way. She went to bed and I carried on watching TV and stuffing around to keep myself busy. I went to go get something and saw a piece of paper in the passage. I could not believe what I was reading. It started with I took xx amount of Sleeping tablets and blamed me about everything and said how she was doing me a favour and she hopes I can experience the true magic intamacy with someone that loves me. I tried to rouse her but she did not respond and called the paramedics. When the paramedics came she turned in a monster and started going mad to the point they called the police. I tried to talk into cooperating but nothing. In the end she physically attacked me chasing me around the ambulance swearing at me and asking how dare I have her arrested. She walked out the gate and the paramedics had to follow her around the neighbourhood until the police arrived. She is now in ICU in a stable condition. She has a history of depression with the last instance being about 2 - 3 years ago.Since then things seemed Ok and she has been seeing a psychologist regularly. She never told her psychologist any of this she was as surprised as I was initially. I dont know what to do now I feel as though she has cornered me in a position where I have no choice to live her way otherwise I will live with her killing herself. Her Dad says I should not see her, her mother says I should. They are also divorced. I am confused her Mother says she was speaking so highly of me yesterday thats not what I saw. The point about the children is absolutely correct they do see this and they are affected. If I go out on my own they want to come as they are scared I dont come back again. They are asking where is mommy. I have told them mommy is sick and needed to go to hospital. Its crazy I ahve no idea where to now. I keep picturing a serene warm quiet place and just wish I was there away from it all just to get a break.

[Luba]

It sounds to me like she's had/having a breakdown.
You do have a choice, Guardian. You don't have to live like this. You and your children need a stable home, you must think of them and what this insanity is doing to them. If you do leave and she does do something to herself, you have to remember that was HER choice, not yours. You didn't choose to live like this, she did. Please give your children a stable home; you don't deserve to live like that either.

[TKDLady]

I can't add anything more than Luba has said. You can't be responsible for anything she does to herself at this point. It isn't your fault she is like this. Your kids need you and they need a stable home. She is not a part of that equation anymore. Get out.

[Guardian]

I know at the bottom of my heart that your advice is right but how do you tell a person this that is hellbent on destroying themselves.

Today has been a hell of a day. She is texting me an onslaught of messages blaming me for everything. Taking every bad thing I have said or done in the past and lumping it into single hurtful text messages. Asking why I saved her, why I wont answer her. Each one of these rips through me and I keep having to try and stop blaming myself for this whole thing. She is taking figures of speech as being literal and bombarding me with them. It was heartbreaking having to hear her scream and fight with the nurses while they restrained her as she was throwing stuff around the ward and then she saw me an went absolutely of it. She attacked me then the nurses then security. It was the worst thing I ever had to bear witness too. It ripped me apart. She is so angry that I saved her life by calling someone. Cant I just skip 2009 and go straight to 2010, 2009 started horribly and gets worse every month. I mean come on when I was following the Ambulance while they did a clinic transfer I ran over some families cat. Now I am thinking my wife hates me and is trying to wipe herself out because of me and now I have taken some poor kids cat away as well. How unlucky can one get in a day. Following the ambulance I found myself travelling roads I have been on often yet I was confused as to where I was. Its like i am in another world where non of this is happening.

She is really a great person deep inside but somehow that person has changed or lost its way and become someone that I dont know anymore.

The kids worry me I know they mean the world to her and I know it would kill her if I took them away, I would feel selfish taking them away but now I dont know if she would harm them.....Would they be safe? I dont know anymore.

Maybe this is just another life lesson for me.....A Rather harsh one to be blunt. She couldnt just have an affair like a normal person she had to take it to a new level. How does the saying go God gives us the people we need to grow and better ourselves not the people we want. I dont know I dont see myself trusting anyone or letting anyone get close to me for the rest of my life. That thought just makes me want to cry.

[Meanon]

It's one of the most distressing things in the world to see someone you love destroy themselves - not least because they often turn on their loved ones in the process. Sometimes someone needs to hit rock bottom before they can find the will and get the help to save themselves. This is not your usual affair scenario. Her personality is disintegrating, that's why you don't recognise her.

If you allow her, she will destroy you and the children in her rage, which can not be contained. You will do yourself and your family no good if you allow this. As this is the first episode, it may well be that she will make a good recovery. However the pattern has been around for a while so I will describe the features of this type of problem in case it continues to develop.

Often the person becomes extremely manipulative. You were meant to find that paper, if she didn't want you to, she would have done it at a time you wouldn't have found it. She may simultaneously cling to and reject you. The source of all this is alternating emotional states of unbearable distress and emptiness. Life becomes an unrelenting crisis - the behaviour mimicing the the emotional state.

I could be wrong Guardian, but I thought I'd let you know about this type of mental health problem as it seems to fit your wife's behaviour so closely. Please protect your children and keep them from her while she is being so destructive. Your love for her needs to cease being that of a husband and become that of a guardian (ironic username, which makes me wonder if you have already shifted into this role). Above all she needs consistency and any destructive behaviour should ideally result in withdrawal of contact with you and the kids. I'm sure you will get help from people at the hospital with this.

i dont feel good enough for her or anyone else for that matter after all this. I also tend to have a bit of a mean streak that was never there before all this where I get so frustrated with her break things.

This is the saddest part of your post for me. No love should make you feel this bad about yourself. The kids are losing you too, guardian, and they need you now more than ever. If your wife were well, she would be asking you to protect them. Children who live with people with parents with these problems are damaged by them. Please do it for them and the woman she may one day return to being. Your self esteem and trust in others will return as you distance yourself from her. You can not help her now, that is for herself and others. Be there on the other side for her - the prize she gets when she has learned how to deal with her demons.

It may be that you decide you need to let her go, but if your heart is not reconciled to that yet then stop investing hope in the person she is now and start investing it in the future in a return to normality in which she shows herself capable of maintaining a decent relationship through her actions. You will need all your self esteem and a strong will to remain aloof from her when she is crisis. If you can't do it, you'd be better to separate from her totally, for good or until she is well once more.

[Guardian]

Thanks Meanon,

This is not the first time her depressive behaviour started while she was pregnant with our son where I swore Satan had taken time off to possess her himself. Since then she has been hospitilised on various occasions by various Psychiatrists. The last time being about 2.5 years ago after my daughter was born. She also tried an overdose then. I supported her through all these failed suicide attempts and times of need as best I could. No one but her family and I knew about these as I never used to talk to anyone. These were different though as she would bring herself into a state where she felt useless and nothing anyone said could change that. This time it seemed strange as for the past 8 months she has seemed very strong and cold hearted about the things she has done not showing much remorse at all. The couples councillor we went to once told me when she is being nice to me she is putting on an act. Thus the following statement from yourself rings very true.

"Often the person becomes extremely manipulative. You were meant to find that paper, if she didn't want you to, she would have done it at a time you wouldn't have found it. She may simultaneously cling to and reject you. The source of all this is alternating emotional states of unbearable distress and emptiness. Life becomes an unrelenting crisis - the behaviour mimicing the the emotional state."

This is exactly how she has been. Her stories vary according to circumstance and change from minute to minute. Her psychologist did not even know what she had been doing and thought she was progressing well. She varies her story dependant on who she is talking to. One minute she seems to care and love me the next I am the worst person in the world. She will say she wants love and affection but when she is given it she says I refuse to give her space. She cant answer me if I ask what she wants. She makes it impossible to be able to please her and makes a point of taking a knock at me in area's she knows I have a weakness. Then takes a hit at me for being insecure. She twists comments from myself or other people to make them sound fare worse than they are.

This time my boundaries have been pushed to far though as the deceitfulness and her ability to make me believe she loves and cares for me is to much. Its like being knocked down every time you think you have got up some portion of the mountain. There is always a new surprise. I cant trust her anymore. I feel guilty about leaving her if I choose this route in the end but do I have to live this type of life. Am I cursed to it?

I know I will always love her but I am not sure I need to break myself doing this. The children suffer from it as well and dont deserve any of this.

I hated being seperated though as she always stayed in the house and my moms place is not big enough for the kids. I get extremely lonely and miss my children which ends up in me spending most of my time in pubs just for the company. How does one get through these things without destroying a portion of oneself.

[Guardian]

Just to add she has calmed down now and asked for me to come see her, which I did do hesitantly as she said she wanted to talk to me and would not shout at me. She looked terrible and wanted to know why I seemed so sad which is quite obvious. She tried to bring up her contacts and said she would delete her mail address because she cant trust anyone. I just told her not to worry about that now. She also told me that she does love me to which I replied that she knows I will always love her. I focused on telling her to sort herself out and get better and not worry about anything else.

As much as I want to believe her I have fallen in this trap to often. Her doctor says she is on the wrong meds and I recall she stopped one of them last year just before all the madness began. Its a difficult decision and I know no one can make it for me but can I live life based on OK next time I am out of here? Just to return time and time again to face the same thing over and over again. I think it would take me a long long time to trust her again. Then again it would take a long time to trust anyone again. Her mother pressures me to just stick by her which makes things even more difficult as if I do leave I feel people will judge me for not sticking by her. I wish there was a way of knowing what the future holds.

Sorry if I jump from point to point writing it just helps me make a bit of sense of it. Thank you all for the advice so far it is definitely helpful and I am glad I joined.

[xxALONExx]

Originally Posted by Guardian

This is exactly how she has been. Her stories vary according to circumstance and change from minute to minute. Her psychologist did not even know what she had been doing and thought she was progressing well. She varies her story dependant on who she is talking to. One minute she seems to care and love me the next I am the worst person in the world. She will say she wants love and affection but when she is given it she says I refuse to give her space. She cant answer me if I ask what she wants. She makes it impossible to be able to please her and makes a point of taking a knock at me in area's she knows I have a weakness. Then takes a hit at me for being insecure. She twists comments from myself or other people to make them sound fare worse than they are.

I really just want to highlight this and say that through my situation I understand what you are going through in this paragraph. It is so painfully confusing. She builds your spirits up and then watches with pleasure as they come crashing back down.

Guardian, despite the drastically different nature of our situations I think that we are both feeling a lot of the same emotions and pain. Because I can't force myself to turn and walk away from my wife I know that I can't tell you that you need to walk away from yours, but I also can't tell you to stay because everything will be okay.

The good news is that your wife is in the hospital where she needs to be. This episode will be medically documented and her psychologist will know about it whether she chooses to talk about it or not. Her psychologist can now change her medication, change the dosage, change something about her medication to hopefully regulate her hormones.

Take what Meanon said to heart. The advice in there about her personality disintegrating is exactly what is going on. Your wife has a wealth of psychological issues that are causing this. You mentioned that she has a history with depression and similar episodes of attempted suicide.

I strongly emphasize what Meanon said about the kids. You must protect those children. If you have to live in your Mom's house that isn't big enough for a little while get those kids over there. It is doing a disservice to their development to see their mother like this. You can be there for your wife to love her and protect her and to help her get better for as long as you love her. But it is your duty in life to protect those children and give them the most loving and stable environment possible.

[TKDLady]

I can only imagine what you are going through Guardian but your health and your childrens' welfare come first. If you do go back to her and she seems to be doing fine, what is to stop her from discontinuing her medication again? I have a friend whose brother is schizophrenic ( I am sure that isn't the politically correct term but ... ) and as soon as he feels good about himself he stops taking his meds because he doesn't think he needs them anymore and then he is right back where he started and my friend is going through hell once again. Don't let your mother-in-law pressure you to stay with her daughter. You have to do what is best for you and your kids. I think you should be commended for staying as long as you have. It is ultimately your decision but if I were you I would get full custody of my kids and leave her. I wouldn't deny her her kids completely but she doesn't sound stable enough to have them live with her. No matter what her mom or other family or friends say, you are not a bad person if you choose to leave her. You have been there for her but a person can only handle so much. You have to know your limits too. I wish you the best and hope you will continue to come here just to vent if that is all you need. Take care.

[Guardian]

It is very sad as when she is in a stable period she is a great person and a great mother. I know she loves her children and they love her too. I know she fears that I will take them away from her if I feel they are in any danger of being harmed. This was part of her note. If I take her children she has nothing although she is quite pleased with herself to do the same to me.

Its a tough decision to make. At the moment I am just watching the situation and trying to ensure she gets through this spell. I get the feeling she thinks once she is through this, all will be forgotten which is definitely not the case. I still want to know why I should trust her in anyway and what this huge truth she has been on about is. Once I understand this I can decide if there is any possibility of a path forward with her. If she still feels that she cannot share this with me there is no way forward as far as I see it. I somehow also get the feeling that even if she tells me there have been so many lies I may not even believe her. A bit of a stale mate I guess.

A person can only be pushed so far and no more. Once that limit is crossed its very difficult to stop the snow ball effect that follows.

[TKDLady]

You are doing good I think. You are thinking it through. Like I said before, you have to make the decision but if you do decide to leave her you can still be there for her on occasion. I am not suggesting you dump her and never see her again. That probably wouldn't be good for the kids either. But you need to think of you first at this point and your children. You can't take care of anyone if you are sick. Hang in there. We will be here when you need to talk.

[IvyRose]

I believe with most psychosis, not taking your medication is part of the illness. Not believing one is ill is another part of the illness.

I would probably give her an ultimatum, if she stops taking her medication, you are gone. Hopefully after this terrible episode, she now realizes she does have a problem and will continue to get better. It's through trial and error with her doctors to get the right medicine and dosages. It is ultimately her responsibility to go through this process, you can only stand by her with support.

I do hope for the best with you both and the children.

[Guardian]

OK she is home and is going to drive me nuts. We have agreed that this not going to work but her threats of taking everything I have are making me crazy. Threatening me with Police if I say the slightest thing out of turn although she is free to insult me and say what she pleases. On most days I feel like I have failed dismally and am yhe most useless person on the planet. The future is unsure, I feel if she does not love me who will. Its just plain horrible. Staying in the same house is the saddest thing ever, it frustrates me like anything. It all just seems unecessary, it did not need to happen but guess it did. Its like I love the person she was and despise the person she became. How do you get through this without taking a huge emotional hit???

[TKDLady]

I don't think sharing the house is such a good idea. You need to take the kids and move out. Document everything and keep any notes she has written or e-mails, anything. Go to a lawyer and see if there is a way to get temporary custody or something until things can be settled. I am concerned about your health and that of your kids. That environment isn't a good one for any one. That is just my opinion but I wouldn't put up with it. She obviously isn't the woman you fell in love with.

[Luba]

On most days I feel like I have failed dismally and am the most useless person on the planet. The future is unsure, I feel if she does not love me who will.

You can't let anyone rob you of your self-esteem. You are being belittled and put down to make her feel less guilty for her own indiscretions. You are not useless! You have to change your thought processes about that. You have to find your own strengths and not let her belittling get to you. This environment is extremely toxic. She is not the same person you fell in love with. The longer this keeps up, the harder it will be to move on. She's already got you questioning yourself and who you are, and that's never a good thing.

I'm very sorry for what you are going through, no one deserves that!