Signs of God

Duke · 06-14-2008, 02:14 PM

A few weeks back I was sitting in a Chinese Restaurant waiting for my take out order to be completed....

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Weiser · 06-14-2008, 03:16 PM

Very good article d00keh! I find it almost comical that you see 666 cropping up all over the place. If it really is the big guy down under showing you he exists, would that, by default, mean there is a big guy upstairs?

Beats the hell out of me. My mom believes herself to be a good christian, but not a zealous nut job like my uncles wife and her family - don't even mention Harry Potter unless you want to get involved in a heated arguement, which I find hilarious. My mom doesn't go to church, nor do I blame her. It's like a cult.

Personally I don't know what I believe, I should have been dead quite a few times over, but here I am, alive and kicking. Was it god that saved my life on all 3 occasions or was it my insanely good luck that just seems to radiate from the proverbial horseshoe up my arse? I don't know. As far as I am concerned, I don't need religion as I just see it as a publicly accept form of Cult. If you've ever gone to one of my crazy religious nut job aunts churches you would see what I mean. It's almost creepy.

I also believe in the theory of evolution and the big bang - not that some divine power created life in 7 days or that the world is only a few thousand years old (6000 or something I don't know and I can't quote where I heard it either). I don't think there was an Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden. You see where I'm going with this?

I would like to believe that there is *something* out there, but I need proof. I won't just blindly follow what some book says. Until I get hit by a bus and have a near death experience where I see some hippie looking dude turning water into wine for me, I don't think I'll ever really believe.

Duke · 06-14-2008, 06:39 PM

Thanks Weiser, it took me a week to write it. Funny thing is that the article was pretty much done yesterday however I didn't want to submit it as it was Friday the 13th.

I'm quirky like this because even though I'm not sure if I entirely believe in God I still don't do things that feel ominous in nature. I think this above all is the reason I wrote the article because I'm truly confused about the entire issue. It's one thing to have faith but how can one have faith in something unless there's actual proof it exists?

Like you I believe in the scientific reasons for existence, not the Religious views. Of course there is always the question of why though, why life on Earth and seemingly nowhere else in the solar system?

Anyway, this article was really meant to air my questions and perhaps get some discussion going into who believes what and why.

IvyRose · 06-16-2008, 10:08 AM

I believe that Heaven and Hell are right here on Earth; that God and the Devil are in our hearts. Although, through the years, I've had a lot of trouble accepting any Church that tells me what to believe. Deep down, I've always believed that Jesus died for our sins and the only one that was or shall be condemned to Hell is Lucifer.

I believe that the fire and brimstone, humans going to Hell for their sins was created by the Church (and our government) in order to scare us all into being obedient.

The question I've had trouble with and have been kicked out of Bible School for repeating is: If God is perfect and makes no mistakes, why was his Angel Lucifer (that God created) so flawed?

The Angels were created to speak God's word and to help mankind. When the subject of Free Will and Satan was brought up as a counter debate, it is irrelevant to me. Lucifer was an Angel, he was created for a specific purpose. Does that mean that God created Evil to balance out Good?

One would have to study Angelology, in order to give a clear view on the purpose, History and existence of Angels to really answer my questions I suppose. It seems a lot of Churches do not accept this line of questioning.

What about Moses? What kind of bush was actually burning when Moses heard the voice of God? In today's world, he would have been sent to a Mental Health Care Facility and told that the voice he heard was his imagination.

I've been scared to death as a child about going to Hell. It was beaten into me that if I did not do the things my elders told me to do, that God would send me down to the deep fiery pits of Hell. It's something I just no longer wish to believe as an adult, but it still lingers in the back of my mind and it is very hard to forget and reform a thought process that was driven so deeply into my psyche.

If I told you today, that I have walked and talked with Jesus and the Devil; would you consider me insane? Others have, yet Saints in the Bible have heard the booming voice of God.

The Bible was written 100 years after Jesus died. There is a huge gap in the Bible that tells of Jesus' personal story and the interpretations of the Bible are many. Not just the Hebrew to English interpretations, but the English to English ones. It is extremely hard for me to base my faith on today's Bible.

As far as the 666 symbolism, I've had a time in my life where I came across it frequently. I was told that it was my Depression and Mania getting to me. 666 is the equation of the Star of David, which is also known to be "God's Holy Star." Just like the Swastika that Hitler used, it was once a symbol of Good Fortune. Other religions and the occult have taken the symbolism of 666 and have made the image of this to be a bad omen.

Here's another one: The upside down cross. Saint Peter requested to be crucified upside down on the cross. He did not feel worthy enough to be crucified as Jesus had. The inverted cross is known as "The Cross of St. Peter (officially known as the Petrine Cross or colloquially Peter's Cross.)" It wasn't until recently did Satanist and the Occult use this symbol in their own interpretations.

Hollywood and good story telling can also really mess with symbolism and scare us just as we like to be scared. It's just a shame that I was gullible enough to believe it for so many years. To this day, I can still not finish watching "The Exorcist." It is just too real to me and has probably aided in my sick imagination of the unknown.

Duke · 06-16-2008, 10:48 PM

Oddly enough, Organized Religion and TV (such as the Exorcist) have very little to do with my thought process. Just the unknown value of Heaven and Hell is enough to make me wonder and also enough to help curb my behavioral patterns now and again.

I think the one biggest event in my life that started this questioning happened when I was a kid. My mom used to coax me into attending Church with her now and again and I didn't mind because she always brought my favorite flavor of Lifesavers Candy and I really liked the Minister. Even though I can't say I was overly attentive to the sermons, I really did like the charisma that our Minister radiated (in fact both him and his wife were like this, you just enjoyed being around them).

I'd even help out during summer vacations by mowing the Church Lawn, vacuuming, dusting, etc., the Church. I can't say I was driven by Faith but more a desire to help out this particular servant of God.

Well, this Minister ended up having a stroke which partially paralyzed one side of his body. It wasn't too obvious really but you could tell as his mouth drooped to one side slightly. Even though his life wasn't in danger it still really sux that had to happen to him and I just couldn't (and still can't) believe that this could happen to a servant of God (a decent, upstanding, servant; not a Chester Molester).

To this day this thought is never far from my mind when the issue of Religion comes up. I just can't understand how something ban can happen to someone who takes God into their lives as much as this man did. It just makes no sense to me and if this is part of a "master plan" then it's a terribly stupid master plan as far as I'm concerned.

My view of Religion was changed forever due to this one, extremely significant event in my youth. To this day I still wonder if my faith will make an ounce of difference in God's master plan and if not, I'll put my faith into something else.

Luba · 06-17-2008, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Well, this Minister ended up having a stroke which partially paralyzed one side of his body. It wasn't too obvious really but you could tell as his mouth drooped to one side slightly. ...I just couldn't (and still can't) believe that this could happen to a servant of God (a decent, upstanding, servant

I hope the following restores your Faith, Duke!

I have the honour and privilege of receiving wonderful, incredibly humorous letters from our former Minister. He lost his beautiful wife and my incredibly wonderful friend five years ago. She was a Cancer Survivor for ten years or more! They moved to another town in another province and then she passed away. He is a very, very strong man and coped with her passing in a way that only, IMHO, people of faith can! He was and is a Rock!

He had his home renovated to keep his mind full! Beautifully done by a 'character carpenter' in their new environment. His daughter helped with the yard and planted flowers.

He became very loved by the small town; as he became known as the "man with the dog". The dog was even allowed to go into the Church with him, as the dog would quietly lay by his feet. Man and dog went everywhere together. Sadly, the dog aged and was in great pain; nothing further could be done; the decision made to let him go to sleep. Well, this wonderful man grieved and got another dog from a Shelter.

He was a great Pianist IMO but not his. After his Stroke he thought he would never play again. Well, not only is he playing in Church as a Sub, he also Ministers as a Sub, and leads a Great Bible Study and says he just loves to listen to himself talk. LOL

He is 82 years old, but you would never know it. He shows no signs that he ever had a Stroke. The last picture I received he looked amazing! He is a very tall man and he lost weight and doesn't look his age at all!

He never loses his sense of humor and joshes with everyone he meets in Restaurants, Post Office, or Grocery Stores. He sees his daughter every week on her ranch which he helps out on.

You see, this Powerful Man of God had many strikes against him and yet he carries on in the most remarkable fashion! It's an honor and a privilege to know this man and that he calls me his friend!

Mondo · 06-17-2008, 08:21 AM

I'm pretty much have the same thoughts as Weiser. Science now explains what religions used to explain by saying its 'Gods work'. If there is any religion I would subscribe to is self belief. After reading the 'God Delusion' I ended any possibility of beliving in a 'God'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvyRose

What about Moses? What kind of bush was actually burning when Moses heard the voice of God? In today's world, he would have been sent to a Mental Health Care Facility and told that the voice he heard was his imagination.

And the God of the old testemant and most of his followers would have been put in Prison and in some countries the electric chair or the hangmans noose!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvyRose

I believe that the fire and brimstone, humans going to Hell for their sins was created by the Church (and our government) in order to scare us all into being obedient.

I think a very large line has to be drawn between personal faith and organised religion, which I belive is the greatest evil humans have ever created. I have no issue with people beliving in God, Gods or some supernatural force (just don't expect me to buy into it!!) but I do have a massive issue with organised institutions proffessing to be doing Gods will and instructing others to do there own brand of Gods will, which until very recently involved allot of killing, prejudice and generally not very nice behavior towards those who didn't belive or didn't belive in quite the same way. I think thats a different discussion though.

IvyRose · 06-17-2008, 03:37 PM

I live in the "Bible Belt" of America in a backwards, but slightly larger city than Hillbilly Central. It is almost impossible to escape the subject of Religion when you have men yelling on street corners, "You're going to Hell!"

You have schools here who aren't suppose to pray, but they do. Not everyday, but enough to influence the new generation. It seems that here, where we live, one of the first things when meeting someone new; the question of "What Church do you go to?" pops up. We've learned to just lie.

The majority of the Religion taught here, is prejudice, biased and downright scary at times. Most of the men of cloth I've been exposed to, don't believe they've had a good sermon until someone is scared of Evil. The sweat, the tears and the red face of the man behind the podium - it was all for a "Good Show" to warm the seats and fill the collection plates.

Where I live in the city, there is a Church about every 10 blocks. All different, yet have the same agenda. Make it interesting!

I tried to believe like the others did when I was young, but I had too many questions. I still don't think I believe strong enough to call myself a Christian nor have any want or need to convert someone in the way I believe.

I don't believe the same way the vast majority of the Churches around me do and I have to keep it quiet. No, I'm not going to die because I believe differently; at least I hope. I will get snubbed, turned down for a job, thrown out of a Church establishment or function if I am to discuss with my community how I really feel. How do I know? All of this has happened to me before.

I have had the added benefit of having a child that is physically disabled. The first time I tried to take him to Church, we were promptly kicked out and my son was called a "Demon Seed." He was too young to remember and I had only wanted to join a community function to get to know my new neighbors.

What I didn't know at the time, was that this specific Church believed that if a person is handicapped, they have done something Evil in a past life. We have run into them quite a few times over the years, usually trying to put Church pamphlets on our door.

I actually had one guy who had brought his daughter with him to my house and when he seen my son, he just about jumped out of his skin. He demanded his pamphlet back, explained that my son had done something Evil and I was being punished as well.

I traveled with my son to Texas to see his favorite wrestlers. I can't even remember where we were, but it was definitely a small town. I took him to get ice cream before another long stint on the highway. We sat down and began eating when I noticed there was a gathering around us.

The employees had called their families to come to the Ice Cream Shop to look at this poor crippled boy. They started chanting Biblical chants and asked me to please let my son go into their Snake Pit to cure him.

My son and I have been approached on many occasions to be Healed. Some days it gets so bad, we just decide not to leave the house for a few days.

I decided that I wanted to raise my son free of "Religious Belief" so that he didn't have the same fears I had growing up. I didn't want him conditioned to believe. I wanted him to come to his own conclusions in time.

Despite all the negative things that he has been subjected to, he knows not to blame the entire Religion(s). He did choose his own Religion and can not talk about it near his relatives or in mixed crowds. I'm proud of him and it has helped him relieve his physical pain when it becomes too much to handle.

I feel what I feel and know what I know. I can't explain it, but there was an event in my son's life that changed my perspective and I began trying to find out who Jesus really was.

My son almost died in a hospital. He went into a coma and the Doctors didn't know if he would awake and if he did, he probably wouldn't remember who he was. My son did awake and had some strange stories to tell me of his experience.

He was too young to lie and I could tell he really believed what he had seen. He described the things I was doing while out of his room, who he met, where he was. It was a surreal experience just listening to him. He talked about this for three days and then no longer. In fact, today he can not remember his experience at all.

I'm not going to lie and say that I have blind faith, but I have a healthy respect. I do pray at home and not just when something is wrong in my life. I believe that it is possible that all Religions with different Deities could be true to an extent and I don't expect anyone to think the same way I do.

wolvesjr34 · 06-17-2008, 09:36 PM

I'm not sure where I stand on the subject of God as a being. I do believe in a higher power and I do believe that this power can influence your life with or without your knowledge. I also believe in reincarnation.

I can't justify in scientific terms why I believe this. But somethign is to be said about meeting for someone for the first time and getting the distinct feeling you've met them before. For me reincarnation explains why people instantly click; why two people who appear so different are the right match for one another and why friends come in all forms.

I personally believe we have lessons to learn each lfie time and while I am struggling to figure my lesson for this life (I am wondering if it's patience), I know when it's all said and done I'll have learned something important.

And if one was to define hell, it probably would be life in the physical realm. At least that's how it feels to me. And I wonder if I did something terrible in a previous life as I have found myself separated from those souls I am closest to. I am grateful that I have at least been able to connect with them again, but it's a very hard lesson being kept from them by circumstance.

Hmm sorry if this has turned into an off topic ramble... but that's my belief for you.

Mondo · 06-18-2008, 04:08 AM

Wow Ivyrose, glad to hear your son is alright but your story of the bible belt sounds scary beyong belief. It just reinforces my view that organised religion is probably something that a God many proffess to belive in wouldn't actually approve of!

Duke · 06-19-2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondo

Wow Ivyrose, glad to hear your son is alright but your story of the bible belt sounds scary beyong belief. It just reinforces my view that organised religion is probably something that a God many proffess to belive in wouldn't actually approve of!

I can't believe how ridiculous that story is Ivy, these people aren't Religious, they're nuts! I think this is what makes me chuckle sometimes when the term "Organized Religion" is used. The only organization the bozos you mentioned remind me of is another club full of wackos known as the KKK.

IR_Efrem · 07-12-2008, 03:31 AM

I could speak forever about my exact views. They do not differ much from yours Duke. Many of my views about religous text come from actually reading them. Having read a few from different religions, I have this to say: they all have some very good points (don't steal, lie, cheat on your spouse) but the rest is story telling. Sure some of the stories have happy endings and even some valid points, but those are lost in doctrine.

My thoughts have always been that there could very well be a supreme being of some sort. Sceince does Not explain the origin of the planet any better than a religous text does. Out of all the beliefs about the origin of the planet (lets leave evolution, of plants and/or animals, out of the equation) they are all missing something, A catalyst. Something to start the process of the formation of a planet, solar system, a galaxy, etc etc etc....

The bible says "god did it", science says "big bang", where is the full explination?? Not a "it just happened."

It is quite natural for us to want there to be a higher power and some greater good to look forward to after death. Indigenous cultures have god(s) as well, coupled with strong beliefs that are free of our views of religion and science. Their ideas seem very strange to us, but explain a concept about the biblical god to them!

Anyway, I think that you, Duke, are missing the same thing that many people are missing. The big questions, why are we here? Is there more than this? But you are cursed in the same manner that I am, no acceptance without proof. I just do my best to help my children be better people and raise them the best that I can. Enjoy my love for them and my love for the woman that I have found.

Even with the love that they surround me with, I still find myself wondering about a higher power (god?) and this screwed up society and how it all fits together. I don't see it, not even a little bit. I have questions that there are no answers to, I suppose that they will get answered when I finally die, or not. Either way I'll do my best with my family (friends are my family as well) and continue doing what I enjoy the most.