Evolution vs. Christianity

[YellowLioness]

What's your take?

I'll give you mine-

Personally, I believe in both. Yes, that's right, BOTH. I think that God works in mysterious ways, and who is to say that God does not work through evolution?

I don't want to discount anything, because I won't actually know who is "right" until I become one with God again at my death.

Here is a question for those of you that do believe- why is it so wrong? It just seems so...logical to me.

I feel constantly at war with my faith, 'cause it tells me to trust and not to question. But, my mind constantly questions.

[darkangelism]

evolution, too much proof to be wrong

[Duke]

Originally Posted by darkangelism

evolution, too much proof to be wrong

what he said.

I think the bible is just a really well done and entertaining b00k.

[Paul]

it's a theory and will remain that. I've yet to see one shred of concrete evidence to help convience me. You can tell me about what people think and how they believe we evolved or what they think happened but that makes evolution no different then any other religion. You still have to have faith in it because it isn't testable, observable, and demonstrable, which therefore means it's not even science.

To add another point, yes I do believe in micro-evolution, like the stories we've heard about sheep that lived in certain regions over a few generations grew longer legs to adapt to the terrain. But we've yet to see (and never will) a factual "missing link" which isn't the skeleton of some guy who had artheritis or a skeleton that was built up based on the tooth of an extinct pig. It's just ridiculous.

If you want to argue against creation then you need to understand it and the scientists who teach it. I grew up in the public school system, every science class I had shoved evolution down my throat so I had no choice but to learn it but I've also learned the alternative too. If you want to argue the point and know what you're against then I suggest you read up a little on the actual SCIENCE of creationism. Not because you'll have to debate me on the subject either, I'm not much good at that, but so you'll know just what it is your so adamently arguing against.

Here's a good CREATIONIST link if you're interested in checking it out: http://www.drdino.com:8080/QandA/index.jsp

[Paul]

Let me quote something I read because it explains it better then I could:

Please understand, when I talk about evolution I am not referring to simple variations that occur in any species. Dogs produce a variety of puppies, but never will dogs produce hamster or pine tree offspring! Creationists do not argue that all dogs, wolves, and foxes may have had a common ancestor, nor do they argue that natural selection occurs. These would both be true whether plants and animals were created or evolved. However, real evolution, as presented in the textbooks, teaches that dogs share a common ancestor with pine trees! While anyone is certainly welcome to believe what he wants to believe, no intelligent person can say evolution is real science, because evolution is not observable, testable, or demonstrable. My argument is not with science, but with evolution being improperly incorporated into science where it has no place.

[darkangelism]

What about the fact that DNA similiarties exist between different animals or that a pig fetus looks like a human fetus, those kinda things show how evolution works.

oh and a lot of the articles on that link contradict each other, one link says the earth is millions another says thousands.

[RandomSkater]

I believe in creationism and i don't see how someone can believe in both creation and evolution at the same time. To be believe evolution is to say that God did not really create the world in 6 days.

I believe that evolution is false becuase if you take a look around you you will notice that everything is degrading. The possibillity of a human being, let alone this entire world with animals, insects and plants, is about the same possibiliity of me taking apart my computer, dropping all the pieces off my roof and having all the pieces fall just right as to make it work without any intervention.
Evolution goes against the law of entropy and I would be surprised if anyone proved this wrong.

You can argue all you want, but I know there is not any scientific proof to prove evolution.

[darkangelism]

but there is proof that the bible is wrong about the start of the world, China and India have writings that predate the supposed start of the world...and how is the world degrading? Also the bible does not allow for life on other planets, which there more then likely is.

also if there is no proof in evolution then there isnt for creationism, i mean its all based on a book, i could write a book and say that my way was right and in a few hundred years people will believe it.

The only was i see creationism as working is if God created the Big Bang...otherwise too much evidence to prove otherwise.

oh and tell me if i ofend you, im trying really hard to not attack christanity, even though its real easy to do.

[dogula]

Originally Posted by RandomSkater

Evolution goes against the law of entropy and I would be surprised if anyone proved this wrong.

It does not. According to your logic it is impossible for you to clean your room, because the entropy of your room would decrease. What you are not taking into account is that regional entropy can decrease, and in doing so the entropy in the universe will increase. All that the law of entropy says that the disorder of the universe will always increase, but the universe is not contained wholly in the life forms of the planet. It says that to order anything in the universe energy must be expended and that creates disorder elsewhere.

And humans are not "degrading," not that your specific definition of degrading is given to us.


Anyway, it seems to me that some combination of evolution theory and creationism is gaining some strength among christians. The theory of 'intelligent design.' It does not follow the bible word for word, but it does make some sense to christians with a functioning sense of logic.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by darkangelism

What about the fact that DNA similiarties exist between different animals or that a pig fetus looks like a human fetus, those kinda things show how evolution works.

oh and a lot of the articles on that link contradict each other, one link says the earth is millions another says thousands.

That proves nothing. The fact that DNA is similar or something looks similar in no way proves there is a correlation.

Please point out the articles you are referring to, the contridiction could simply be the fact that evolutionists believe it's millions of years and creationists believe it's merely thousands.

[Duke]

Originally Posted by RandomSkater

I believe in creationism and i don't see how someone can believe in both creation and evolution at the same time. To be believe evolution is to say that God did not really create the world in 6 days.

I believe that evolution is false becuase if you take a look around you you will notice that everything is degrading. The possibillity of a human being, let alone this entire world with animals, insects and plants, is about the same possibiliity of me taking apart my computer, dropping all the pieces off my roof and having all the pieces fall just right as to make it work without any intervention.
Evolution goes against the law of entropy and I would be surprised if anyone proved this wrong.

You can argue all you want, but I know there is not any scientific proof to prove evolution.

There is no scientific proof of the beginning of the world, I fully agree. That would mean that we knew the creator which we didn't.

Believing a God created the world is every bit as silly though. That's not exactly my idea of tangible evedince either.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by darkangelism

but there is proof that the bible is wrong about the start of the world, China and India have writings that predate the supposed start of the world...and how is the world degrading? Also the bible does not allow for life on other planets, which there more then likely is.

You're not offending me in the least DA, I find evolution easier to disagree with then you may find Christiantiy!

I would ask you though for the proof that the Bible is wrong. How did they determine that these writings predated? You're not 100% correct on the stating the Bible doesn't allow for life on other planets but I'd like to see anyone prove it in our lifetime. Saying that there more then likely is isn't quite good enough, there's still no proof. Please link me to articles to back up your thoughts, I'd love to read them!

also if there is no proof in evolution then there isnt for creationism,

actually, that's not correct because I've yet to see any evidence for evolution whereas I have many points I could use as evidence for creation. Rather then list each of them individually you can feel free to take a look here: http://www.creationevidence.org/cemframes.html
Also, if you do think you can provide evidence for evolution, there is a long standing offer of $250,000 to anyone who can, you can read more about that here.

i mean its all based on a book, i could write a book and say that my way was right and in a few hundred years people will believe it.

Possibly, but can you write a book that is infallible and can stand the test of time against all opposition? I could walk you through some of the points you might raise but if you want to debate the Bible, you should at least read it and I don't mean a couple verses here and there, I mean the whole thing. I have, it's a bit wordy in places but it's a great lessons!

The only was i see creationism as working is if God created the Big Bang...otherwise too much evidence to prove otherwise.

I'd love to see just one piece, honest truth. It's really to bad that this religion has been taught in schools, otherwise people might be more open to science.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Duke

There is no scientific proof of the beginning of the world, I fully agree. That would mean that we knew the creator which we didn't.

Believing a God created the world is every bit as silly though. That's not exactly my idea of tangible evedince either.

Good reply Duke, your conclusion ascertains that both theories must be taken with a certain amount of faith, as does any religion. However, tangible evidence is as easy to find as you make. I can point you to some articles and write some points myself but it's up to the individual to approach it unbiasedly and thoroughly investigate it.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by dogula

Anyway, it seems to me that some combination of evolution theory and creationism is gaining some strength among christians. The theory of 'intelligent design.' It does not follow the bible word for word, but it does make some sense to christians with a functioning sense of logic.

You're definetly a good debater dogula, I particularily love the little barbs you place in the last sentence of your posts that hook the reader, maybe shake them up a little so that they are disorientedly and come back for more. I can't hope to be on your level, if this were a face to face debate I'd probably get lost in my words but thankfully we have the use of this wonderful medium whereby I have the time to ponder your points before replying. However my lack of skill in debating a point doesn't mean there isn't a response to your points or questions, it doesn't change the evidence, it just means that I, like all good students, am still learning.

Also, and I'm just stating this because sometimes people, myself included, can get a little bit passionate about the topic, I don't want anyone to come here reading this and feeling personally attacked, as no one here would like to be, so if it comes to that we'll just lock the topic and move on to another subject. I am not "creation", just as others are not "evolution", we're not what we believe or debate, in the end we're still just a group of people asking tough questions. Let's stick to the topics and debate the points, not eachother. Personally I like being asked hard questions because it's a good challenge and I'm sure all of us can appreciate that!

Any thoughts on this Duke? This sounds like something you'd say and I just wanted to "administratively" reiterate.