Juvenile Justice System

[Merika]

NOV 10..... Sn00py was put in a Juvenile Offender Program today while we went for his arraignment. They meet and talk in little 'help groups' while some equally as screwed up adult tells them it's their environment and peer pressue.....instead of making them take personal responsibility.

Good Grief....why don't they just give these kids a pat on the head and give them a cookie! No wonder kids today are truent and do whatever the heck they want to. No one HOLDS them accountable!

[Duke]

You gotta be serious, thats what our justice system has deteriorated too.

- Climb a bell tower and start shooting, blame a movie.
- Kill somebody in a drive by, blame a video game.
- Get caught stealing a car, blame a music video.

The sad part is, people actually get away with doing this stuff. In this day and age, nobody is directly responsible for their actions and it's sick.

Wanna fix the mess immediately, eye for an eye justice where the victim determines the punishment level and severity. How much do you want to bet the first year sees 100% decrease in crime?

[Merika]

AN 'eye for an eye' is considered Biblical or religious justice. This is why you have a group in the USA who support the death penalty for murderers and a group who don't. This always makes an interesting political thread.

I think kids and criminals ALL get by with less 'time for the crime' than they probably should.

I wouldn't want my 12 year old hauled away to jail again either. However, had they did anything to the kids who broke into our house last year....other than the same patting on the head theory....maybe kids would know in advance that they aren't going to get by with this stuff.

I think the LAST message I would want to send out to the children in my neighborhood is that MY kid was part of their school being broken into and vandalized....and my kid is running all around like nothing happened. I want them to see their is a punishment involved!

If we, as parents and law enforcement, don't do this....then how will we stop the cycle????

[Merika]

I split the post we had going in off topic since it may be a discussion other's have an opinion on.

You brought out some very good points Duke and I totally agree!

[Duke]

Thanks Merika, it will be interesting to see how others reply to this thread.

[Star]

The juvenile justice system is a huge joke and I wonder why we even have a juvenile justice system at all!

I know and feel the frustration very well. I've learned a lot about it in the last 3 years of having to deal with it with my daughter. I don't know who the responsible one is that decided the youth laws should be this way. bet it's someone who had no kids or perhaps this person was a juvenile delinquent in his/her younger years, who knows but it does need a huge overhaul that's for certain.

Kids today only get a slap on the wrist, nothing more. They don't get the concequence they should for their actions is why we have so many kids that are out of control these days. We as parents can't do much more because our hands are tied according to the law. It's sick!

My child has been out of school and out on the streets since the age of 13. Do you think they enforced the truency law or punished her for her behaviour? NO! that's why i am a grand mother today. I'm lucky that my child hasn't died within these 3 years!

The fact that our kids have all their rights at age of 12 is rediculous. the youth system does need to be revised big time!

[Duke]

You know, the only defense a parent has for a delinquent child is to warn them of how their actions will screw them up for the rest of their lives. Can't hit 'em, assault or child abuse. Can't lock 'em up, abuse and infringement on their rights.

This may sound off, but my child only has rights as long as they stay unexploited. The moment she starts to stray is the precise moment I'm shuttin' her down.

It hasn't happened with my daughter for many reasons, more of them a credit to the person she is rather than my parenting skills.

[Merika]

I think both Star and I could say that at the age your daughter is Duke......ours were within control also. When puberty hits....they become a whole new creature. I'm not sure that all the parenting or love in the world controls who they are destined to become.

What Star is saying is that 'the system' is there to JUDGE you....but not help you out. You can't beat the kid or make them unhappy....because the little Darlins have rights. BUT....when they screw up without you being able to stop them...the state throws the responsibility right back at YOU.

Again....until you have a child old enough to pull this crap....it's hard to understand how you got a screwy one! LOL. Every now and then though.....your kids can surprise you.

[Duke]

I know theres clouds on the horizon. All I can do is hope that the groudwork I've laid for the past 10 years is remembered by her and that I'm someone she can trust. I know it's not common for teens to be close to their parents at all times like when they were young but I still remain optimistic.

[Meanon]

An eye for an eye just leads to a lot off very short sighted people

The punishment needs to reflect where the child is at. For a first offense, at 12, given the circumstances of his arrest, detention and court hearing, the punishment sounds approriate to me. He needs to know he can never do it again. Most kids would be scared rigid by the experience and that would be it. The programme is to get him to understand why he did it and to better equip him to resist peer pressure in future. This bit is not a punishment, it's about preventing re-offending.

If a child sees this as getting off light and does it again, then the punishment has to be increased to have a deterrent effect. There's a real risk if you do this straight off that the child who has already learned their lesson will opt out, think of themselves as the criminal they are being treated as, rather than the reposnisble person everyone believes they can be and (worst of all) continue to mix in the company of peers who will lead them astray.

I've visited young offenders centres, Merika. You would not want your son there. There's a very high proportion of mentally ill. Self harm and attempted suicide are common. The prison officers I've met feel they are just holding back the tide. They exclude from society but there is minimal rehabilitation and a very high rate of re-offending on release.

[Merika]

I wonder if there have always been as many teens as emotionally disturbed as so many seem to be now.....or if there is an aspect of our society which caused it. Such as:

Lack of parental control
Divorces
Lack of corporal pushishment
Outside influences

I really don't know. I do know that when I was growing up....my mom would beat my butt in a heartbeat (not at all suggesting abuse). As a matter of fact, I'm now an adult and if I sassed her....she may still slap the crap out of me. I don't know if we have instilled within our children the respect which comes from an element of fear.

[Star]

I think that kids today don't fear authority because society lacks authority. When we were kids, we had more severe punishments at home, school and by law. We had reform school. That alone gave us enough fear to behave by the law. "wait until your father getws home" was a common sentence at my house. We knew we crossed the line when mom said that and we were scared. Not that my father would beat on us because it wasn't abuse at all, it was discipline. Being grounded meant that we were grounded and there was no way to get out of it. At school we had the fear of getting the strap from the principle (not that i agree with that at all) but that helped to keep us in line.

Now the law "babies" our kids to the point where they no longer respect their elders, authority figures or the law. Somewhere through the years past, something's gone wrong. Kids today just don't have the respect today for anything like we did when we were kids. It's actually quite sad.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Merika

I don't know if we have instilled within our children the respect which comes from an element of fear.

But it's such a fine line, it's so hard to define plus every child is different! I grew up getting the occasional spanking and have never seen any problem with it but recently I was thinking about it and I realized how it made me feel and how my parents were acting when it took place. It was never out of love, it was always out of anger and bordered on abuse. Don't get me wrong, I love my parents very much but having gone through the things I have with my parents, I'll never be able to spank my child without thinking of my angry parent striking my backside.

Now when I was young, fear was what my parents used to keep us in line but there was never any respect between us or me for my parents because of it, in fact I developed total disrespect for them because of how they reacted. I also learnt what set them off and I readily admit to pushing them to the point of physical abuse on a few occasions. I think perhaps the realization of the fact that I could control them in that way so easily made me just resent them more.

So that brings up the question, what is a healthy alternative? How do you teach a child to respect you, adults and people in general (especially when most people don't deserve it, lol)? I still have trouble with this one as an adult, especially when I've been hurt by someone, but I think what does work for some people including myself is having enough respect for yourself to do the right thing and make the right choices. That's probably the biggest factor as a teen in what kept me from doing certain things or got me to stop doing them, because I didn't like how it made me feel about myself and I knew I was better then that. I'm not exactly sure how you could teach a child this, is more something you would instill over time but I think self-respect is a big ingredient in the forumla.