Andrew: Part II HomeVisit

[Scott]

For some reason I feel compeled to start a new thread about this subject.

Perhaps its my wish that a literal, as well as figurative new chapter begin.

This weekend Andrew spent three nights at home, the first nights he's been home since just before being incarcerated for breaking parole when he tried to place his foot through the screen of my 52" Samsung.

Anyway, as most of you know, since then he's been in a Mental Hospital, and I've exausted myself driving the 3 hour round trip per day on weekends bringing him home to test his presumably better behavioural skills under the influance of Risperdal, an anti-psychotic.

This weekend went well, but imperfectly. Happily he had no fits of rage causing him to go after anyone with a knife, he didn't kick any TV's, he didn't cause the police to appear on my doorstep, and he didn't go into any weird brooding trances because he didn't get His Way.

He did pierce his nose, because he said he was bored. He did forget to lock my bike after I let him borrow it, and he didn't call me to let me know he'd arrived at the rec. center. Finally, he refused to introduce me to any individual in the little group he wanted to hang out with during the Town Summer Music Concert Series. He also refuses to make any effort to raise his grades above a 70 average, the bare minimum.

[Vautrin]

Originally Posted by Scott

He did pierce his nose, because he said he was bored. He did forget to lock my bike after I let him borrow it, and he didn't call me to let me know he'd arrived at the rec. center.

Being on anti-psychotics is not really that much fun. People often describe it as walking around as a zombie, getting little or no joy from anything. I would not know how Risperdal affects memory functions, but that may play a role.

He also refuses to make any effort to raise his grades above a 70 average, the bare minimum.

Now I am not trying to justify this, but from his perspective, what would the point be?

[PepsiChic]

I think the best thing to do is just pick up on the positive stuff, praise him for it, and praise him well. In dark times like hes going through, positive words bring light, even if they dont seem like it to you, i guarantee they mean a lot more to him then he'll show.

yes there will be a few negative things, but from what you've said they seem to be closer to normal behavior, just the "rebellious" stage we all went through.

i think both he AND you are doing great, you showed strength and encouragement to Andrew by letting him back in the house. and Andrew didnt do anything seriously wrong.
i just beg you to please give him praise for it, tell him why your pleased/proud of him, dont say a single negative thing and just sit back and see what happens.

[Fayebelle]

So has he returned to the institution? What goals are they working toward now that he did have a rather successful visit home? Will he be returning to school this fall? Do they offer an Intensive Outpatient Program through the hospital?

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Vautrin

Now I am not trying to justify this, but from his perspective, what would the point be?

I agree that comparativly speaking, whether or not Andrew is motivated to learn how to add fractions or write, or read, isn't important. But having goals is important. One goal he's been given is to marginally improve his grades so he may PREMANTLY return home. Given ample time and opportunity, he simply refuses to accomplish this goal.

Originally Posted by PepsiChic

i think both he AND you are doing great, you showed strength and encouragement to Andrew by letting him back in the house. and Andrew didnt do anything seriously wrong.
i just beg you to please give him praise for it, tell him why your pleased/proud of him, dont say a single negative thing and just sit back and see what happens.

I COMPLETELY agree with you, PepsiChic. This is the best route. Unhappily, I've learned of one other incident after interrogating my other kids over the past two days about a thumbprint sized burn on Adam's left abdomen. Adam has finally admitted that Andrew used a lamp to "give him a tan," and that when the bulb in the lamp touched him, it burnt. I think this was a stupid accident, but my wife isn't so sure since she's convinced that Andrew has used hot bulbs to self-harm.

I've reported the incident to the County and the Hospital, and have taken pictures of the injury that does not appear to need medical attention.

Originally Posted by Fayebelle

So has he returned to the institution? What goals are they working toward now that he did have a rather successful visit home? Will he be returning to school this fall? Do they offer an Intensive Outpatient Program through the hospital?

They do have an Outpatient program, and he has returned to the institution. I think that we may have been optimistic in letting him back for 3 nights, and will probably go to one night and a more gradual approach to longer terms. We still need to line up the neuropsychatrist and if necessary neurologist. Ithis is as much a necessity to rule out organic factors as to apply for disability.

[PepsiChic]

Originally Posted by Scott

I COMPLETELY agree with you, PepsiChic. This is the best route. Unhappily, I've learned of one other incident after interrogating my other kids over the past two days about a thumbprint sized burn on Adam's left abdomen. Adam has finally admitted that Andrew used a lamp to "give him a tan," and that when the bulb in the lamp touched him, it burnt. I think this was a stupid accident, but my wife isn't so sure since she's convinced that Andrew has used hot bulbs to self-harm.

I've reported the incident to the County and the Hospital, and have taken pictures of the injury that does not appear to need medical attention

It could be a number of things:

a. boys being boys, messing around and learning the hard way as is normal
or
b. self harm
or
c. something hes seen someone at the hospital do or suggest - kids are influenced by other children A LOT


id suggest asking the people at the hospital if they have noticed any burn marks on Andrew or on children Andrew has spent a lot of time around - this could help eliminate the possibilities of what it could be and may be just as Adam said.

The other thing id do is talk to Andrew about it, just drop it into a conversation dont just go all out "what happened with Adam" type thing, im sure you already know all this tho, but i think bringing it up in light conversation to get Andrews side of the story on it could help ease you and your wifes worries on what happened tho.

If it was indeed a silly accident then there shouldnt be too much for concern as thats how we generally learn are from mistakes. Still question but praise him for the good hes done.

As for the school stuff, Perhaps there is more to this then meets the eye...if he doesnt want to learn or go back to school, there could be an issue hes not telling about with the school. be it bullies or just fear because its a different school to his old one with his friends.

children are like animals in a sense. for example, a herd of horses, they will challenge and fight and learn their picking order. as far as i can tell its pretty much the same in schools. if he was popular and friendly in his old school, he may have been taken don a peg or two in the new school and this change may make him very reluctant to learn.

All i could really suggest is talk to him but dont make him feel like hes in trouble, that hes done something wrong, just let him know your concerned about why hes reluctant to get his grades up and wonder if there is something you can do to help him.

Instead of trying to be his father, because you already are, try to be his best friend. think about things from his age and point of view and "act like a kid" be "one of the guys" his friends.

[John]

Obviously a very difficult situation Scott. All you can do is keep the pressure on and continue to push for his compliance and any cooperation you can get.
You'll just have to continue to set goals for him although he will fight you all the way.

He is a disturbed child and always will be a handful if not 2 handfuls.

Something was said about you taking the approach of a friend rather then a parent. That is the biggest mistake you could make in my opinion. It would surly be seen as a weakness and any respect he might have for you he will lose. My guess is that he has very few friends and any he may make abandon him quickly.

Parents are never friends and shouldn't be.

[PepsiChic]

Originally Posted by John Sullivan

Obviously a very difficult situation Scott. All you can do is keep the pressure on and continue to push for his compliance and any cooperation you can get.
You'll just have to continue to set goals for him although he will fight you all the way.

He is a disturbed child and always will be a handful if not 2 handfuls.

Something was said about you taking the approach of a friend rather then a parent. That is the biggest mistake you could make in my opinion. It would surly be seen as a weakness and any respect he might have for you he will lose. My guess is that he has very few friends and any he may make abandon him quickly.

Parents are never friends and shouldn't be.

first off he is not "disturbed" he is ill. i HATE the word disturbed because its a cop-out for actually agreeing with an illness.

secondly, i disagree with the whole "you cant be a friend and a parent" bs when you are a child your friends become very important to you. and ive seen many parents and children get along in friendship as well as their parent-child relationship, it only serves to strengthen bonds.

understanding a child on their level is not weakness, its good parenting.

i hope Duke doesnt mind me using him as an example, but his relationship with his daughter is a fine specimen of what im saying. they are friends as well as daughter and father. they play very important roles in each others life's and are very close because of it.

[John]

Originally Posted by PepsiChic

first off he is not "disturbed" he is ill. i HATE the word disturbed because its a cop-out for actually agreeing with an illness.

secondly, i disagree with the whole "you cant be a friend and a parent" bs when you are a child your friends become very important to you. and ive seen many parents and children get along in friendship as well as their parent-child relationship, it only serves to strengthen bonds.

understanding a child on their level is not weakness, its good parenting.

i hope Duke doesnt mind me using him as an example, but his relationship with his daughter is a fine specimen of what im saying. they are friends as well as daughter and father. they play very important roles in each others life's and are very close because of it.

Then we will have to agree to disagree because I will not negotiate on this issue.

[Scott]

I know you guys are going to think I'm trying to sit on some sort of fence, but I've dealt with a lot of kids, including my own. Some kids you can be "friends" with, and this is very, VERY attractive. As an adult, parent, or a teacher, you really WANT to be friends with kids. Its a great feeling to be in their confidence......HOWEVER, unhappily, an ADULT cannot be friends with a KID, because morally, ethically, and legally, the adult is held responsible for the child's actions.

When adults get in trouble, they allow this important barrier to become blurred....I think looking at tribal, or aboriginal cultures offer simple examples and clarify the boundries between adult and child. There are certain activities, relationships....whatever, that are simply Taboo.

Perhaps I'm waxing philisophically.....at any rate, PepsiChic, I certainly understand your POV and appreciate it. I see it as an ideal, that might exist perfectly between some parents and their children. However, in 99% of the actual relationships between parents and kids, I agree that there must be a clear difference between the relationships kids have with adults (including their parents) and their friends.

[John]

Originally Posted by Scott

I know you guys are going to think I'm trying to sit on some sort of fence, but I've dealt with a lot of kids, including my own. Some kids you can be "friends" with, and this is very, VERY attractive. As an adult, parent, or a teacher, you really WANT to be friends with kids. Its a great feeling to be in their confidence......HOWEVER, unhappily, an ADULT cannot be friends with a KID, because morally, ethically, and legally, the adult is held responsible for the child's actions.

When adults get in trouble, they allow this important barrier to become blurred....I think looking at tribal, or aboriginal cultures offer simple examples and clarify the boundries between adult and child. There are certain activities, relationships....whatever, that are simply Taboo.

Perhaps I'm waxing philisophically.....at any rate, PepsiChic, I certainly understand your POV and appreciate it. I see it as an ideal, that might exist perfectly between some parents and their children. However, in 99% of the actual relationships between parents and kids, I agree that there must be a clear difference between the relationships kids have with adults (including their parents) and their friends.

I don't think you're sitting on a fence at all Scott. That's a very good explanation of how I feel about the relationship between adults and children.

As adults and or parents it is our jobs to advise, try and shape the thinking of and help kids grow as best we can. I happen to think that in most cases maintaining a certain authoritarian decorum between adults and children is paramount in us being able to accomplish those goal.

Having too much of a touchy feely friendship type relationship prevents the proper relationship from existing and thereby hampering our job as adults.

By the way I applaud you for your efforts to help bring about a positive outcome to a very difficult situation.