Learn to Speak English

[Just__A__Thought]

Living on a border state (to Mexico) I am inundated with people who don't understand me and whom I don't understand. If I were a service provider I would want to learn to speak spanish so that I could build my customer base -- but America is NOT a service provider. We won't adopt an official language so we pay more to have federal information/services printed/published/broadcast/etc. in two languages. The money for that (and I'm talking many millions of dollars annualy) comes out of our pockets by way of the taxes we pay.

Yes, there are many legal immigrants here and many Americans who, for generations, have not learned English. They also pay taxes--BUT the majority of the illegal immigrants here do not pay taxes and yet we cater to them.

I'm not bilingual and I don't want to be -- if I did, spanish would not be the language I would choose. I've been looking for a job change lately and better than half of the positions which would be perfect for me (and me for them) I am excluded only because I do not speak spanish. In the positions I have applied for, speaking spanish would not be an every-day thing -- more of a speciality asset or perk for the company, not a requirement to do the job--and yet, I am excluded. If I were seeking employment in another country I would expect to learn the language or find a job that didn't require it.

I'm sure the frustration is on both sides. One of the women who cleans the office speaks no english, but a co-worker who speaks spanish has told us that the 'cleaning lady' has great computer skills and worked in an office in Mexico and has some office skills too. She came to this country to escape the hardships of her own country. She stayed until she could get anmesty. I asked why she wouldn't learn english so she could get a job better suited to her skills and the answer was -- her family refuses to speak anything but spanish and does not want her to learn english and she would be ridiculed by her peers for doing so. Its a viscious circle. The part that gets me is that she came here ILLEGALLY--but that's another thread. She made her choice.

If we had an official language then she would be forced to learn at least a little english. If I want the trash emptied at night I write "Basura" on the boxes. If I write "trash" it's there the next day. Now, I know she knows what "trash" means--but she refuses and claims that she doesn't understand.

Mexico is a country and not available for purchase or adoption as a state. A lot of companies have outsourced to Mexico because labor is cheap there and it takes away jobs from Americans.

There is a part of our town (and I'm sure they are all over the country) where a certain culture has congregated. Our is 'China Town' and the street signs carry the name in English and Mandarin. Who paid for those Mandarin street signs? The business owners and community in that area -- not the taxpayers. They keep their culture and share it with everyone. They don't shove it down anyone's throat or demand that other learn their language or force their language down anyone's throat.

[darkangelism]

Yeah i agree, previous generations of immigrants learned the language and adopted the culture.

[Vautrin]

As frustrating as it may be, language skills do matter. Imagine working in Switzerland, where there are 4(!) official spoken languages. Retro-Roman, French, Italian, and German.

You can see why a single a language would not be sufficient, as talking with collegues is limited to one language only, and you cannot expect the clients to suit you - that is the world upside down, so you should make yourself suitable for the clients.

And yes, if a lot of clients in the US speak Spanish, or a lot of collegues do, why should not you speak Spanish?
I have learnt the English language because I was forced to. Not because I think the language is so beautiful (I can come up with a few languages that rank higher for me, in that respect). I have not seen many books I used for classes in university that were actually in Dutch. Even my coursebook on statistics is in English. And I am about 6 to 7 thousand miles from Mexico.

I am not saying that it is wrong, but if you feel entitled to speak English "at home", you should also feel obliged to speak whatever is spoken abroad.

And as things stands the US has not adopted an official language. So if people want to conduct business in Basque or Frisian, they are perfectly entitled to that. But it means they would also cater to small communities in the US - effectively making certain that their businesses will not grow. But you cannot force the client to do certain things, just because it suits the company better. The client simply will go somewhere else.

[Merika]

I think you have to deal with it, like just_a_thought does, before you can understand how frustrating it is to have to deal with people who have lived in the USA for a decade and still can't speak English....or claim not to be able to when they have to deal with something. It's just annoying. I don't think we have to 'adopt' a language. It's pretty obvious that English is what we speak.

I HATE when someone on the phone at work asks me if I speak Spanish. My reply is "NO...I DON'T...because I live in America. Now, if I moved to Mexico....I'd learn Spanish.".

If someone is a tourist...that's one thing. If someone chooses to live here and reap the social/financial benefits....they need to learn the language. Immigrants from europe or any other country seen to be able to not only learn it....but use it as their main home language. It's a cop out for someone not to learn the language of the country they have chosen live in.

[Vautrin]

To an extent it is. But research has also shown that learning a second language is very hard, if you have barely been exposed to the language in the first 3-10 years of your life.

Merika, I am confident that if you would try to learn to speak Dutch, you would never acquire the fluency of a native speaker. As I will never be able to learn to speak Romanian properly.

One problem you will run into, is that our nouns have gender, even though the prefixes do not show which. Is "vrijheid" (liberty), masculine, feminine, or neuter? Take a guess.

Of course, some people will be too lazy to learn another language. But not all people. And not all people who want to learn a language will succeed. Chances for me to succeed at mastering Russian are slim at best by now.

People in Western-Europe have the advantage that all the crap that is on air in the US is also transmitted in Europe - it is telling about the European stuff we put on TV, is not it? . We get quite exposed to American and British culture and programs.

My parents for instance are subtitle dependent when they watch TV-shows, even though their understanding of English is adequate enough to do without them.
Can you imagine how hard it would be to hold conversation for about 30 minutes about anything? We are going to find out soon, whether or not they will succeed at that . If not, I will make certain they will never move to the US, .

In the Netherlands there is even a group of Dutch born people who do not speak Dutch, and who cannot even speak Dutch. But they have the legal right (as any citizen) to get their official paperwork in Frisian (the language these people speak). Highly inefficient? Yes.
But also a result of cultural elitism of Dutch government in ignoring the particular minority, and violating minority rights.

[darkangelism]

Its fine if they dont want to learn english but they shouldnt demansd that we all learn spanish to be able to communicate.

[sweetbilly]

I don't think it's just the language barrier thats the problem either. A good paying job is a real b%#$h to find here now because ther are way to many illegal mexicans willing to do the same job for half the cost, they don't want to pick lettuce either so the jobs they are taking always seems to be mine.

They take the money they earn in America and go back to Mexico where they become essentally rich and the money they take never returns to the United States. I'm working for the same price an illegal Mexican would work for, and paying more everyday to stay alive!!! They don't have to pay the same prices in Mexico we have to pay here, and they all seemingly have the same social security number they bought from someone in a dark alley so they don't actually pay any income taxes.

We are simply destroying our own enonomy by allowing them to stay here. Almost all the manufacturing jobs are now in a foreign countries, due to corporate greed and downsizing, LOL what a joke. So what are we, that live here, supposed to do for work? We need to start considering permantly closing down our borders to illegal and legal immigrants and uping the terrif taxes so companies will have to pay as much to do business in a foreign country as they do here, maybe then they will choose America to do business in.

No other country on earth would allow people to just simply cross the borders like we do, yet we do. It seems like every time something is about to be done, politically that is, the legal immigrants who illegally crossed the border years ago always stand up and say "if you close down the borders we will vote you out of office" I mean it's so bad in California now the education system isn't even functioning anymore they can't teach the legal kids cause they are always having to deal with the freakin illegals. My friend's daughter is now learning Spanish in school, i mean WTF? It's not so bad that she is learning Spanish, but they are making it a mandatory part of her education because the area they live in is running rampant with illegal Mexicans!! Why would any politician stand up and force them out if the "illegal-legals" make threats to vote them out of office? If anyone ever actually went through with it it would cost them their jobs. But I agree, something needs to be done and SOON too.

[Vautrin]

It is the US companies that downsize, and move to countries like China, because of cheaper labour costs. That is company policy, and no single individual controls that.

You could also argue that anyone working under standard prices, is in fact improving the odds of a US-based company to stay. Because labour expenditure is less than when a legal worker is hired. In short, blame the companies who prefer to hire people who get less than what the US worker is entitled to.

And the "nice" thing about the election system in the US, is that politicians are afraid to hurt their chances of votes. While you can win a few people over by taking a stance, you will lose more votes from those who are opposed. Hence inaction.

[sweetbilly]

In short, blame the companies who prefer to hire people who get less than what the US worker is entitled to

Thats exactally who i blame but the only way to bring about a change is to raise terrif taxes on imported good so high that these companies can't afford to compete in the market place; thus, making America the cheapest place to conduct business.

And the "nice" thing about the election system in the US, is that politicians are afraid to hurt their chances of votes

I agree with that as well, but my point is that the people who should not be voting, because they entered this country illegally and have been her longer than 6 years giving them citizenship status, now out number the people are here legally or have lived her their entire lives and want a change in how our system works; and they can't exact that change simply because they are out numbered at the polling booths.

I'm not suggesting changing anything in America, i'm just suggesting that the laws which are currently in place be enforced. I still think America is the greatest country on earth and i still want every person to have the freedoms we have but there is a limit to the illegal immigration this country can tollerate. If these people want a better life i say quit being a coward stay in your own country and fix it, quit destroying ours.

[Merika]

Billy....as I sent out in email:
Did you know...

The US now takes in almost half of the world's immigrants?

Immigrants, legal and illegal, cost taxpayers a record $66 Billion in 2002?

400,000 foreigners collect SSI benefits from the Social Security Administration with out being required to ever work in America?
No wonder S.S. in is trouble!!!!

Immigrants were 64% more likely to receive medicaid benefits then Native Americans, and 75% more likely to get food stamps, medical benefits and housing assistance.

All told, non- citizens now collect nearly $7 Billion a year in benefits.

Bilingual programs currently consume over $28 Billion education dollars a year because 1 child in 20 now can't speak adequate English. Even though bilingual education has been proven to be an ineffective way to teach English.

Approx. 1 million legal and huge numbers more of illegal immigrants come to our country each year. Some studies indicate that we can absorb only about 300,000 per year in total without causing a dramatic impacts and structural changes on population levels and economic and social institutions.

A new grassroots org called Americans for Immigration Control AIC Inc. is trying to make changes to protect everyone. their web site is www.immigrationcontrol.com
check it out

From Bush on down, its just not popular to keep out cheap labor and guess who gets to pay the tab. Got a mirror??
-------------------------------------------------------------

At the same time....our immigration heritage is what has kept us strong. It's only that the others managed to learn to speak English and went on to build trades/business' for themselves.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Vautrin....I can basically speak two languages. English and German. Truth is....not too many German people move to America and need to speak German. HAHA!