Gay Marriage and Homosexual Adoption

[Ayla]

So life in 1958 wasn't much diffrent than life in 2005? Interesting.

[darkangelism]

values have not changed significantly, at least not nationwide, maybe in the blue parenthesis of the coasts things are more different, but homosexuality is still not acceptable to a lot of people(in my house they are referred to as f******s), the tradtional life cycle is still there, man, women get married have kids, that is still common. The only major difference in society is women in the workplace. If homosexuality was more accepted gay marriage and civil unions would have been passed in more states not outvoted 3-1.

[Star]

My daughter came home from school one day telling me about this boy in her class and how he gets teased every single day because people think he's gay. my daughter isn't taking part in this teasing but others are. one of my nephew's gets teased about being gay just as much as that kid in my daughter's class. he's a bit feminie in personality ehihc is the reason he's getting teased.

my point here is that it still happens. kids are kids whether they were kids in the 50's, 70's or now. kids are still using the words that were used when us older people were young. my daughter knows what those words are but she never heard them from our home. hubby and i raised our kids without prejudice and we did succeed in doing that. it's the outside peers that teach other kids these things.

my friend being 48 means nothing. kids are still kids and kids are just cruel. they don't know how hurtful and damaging teasing can be; not until they get older.

[darkangelism]

two of my cousins are gay and they get teased even by their family.

[Ayla]

I agree that the moral thread hasn't changed much..but views on gays and lesbians has. Drastically. I'm not saying they don't still get teased or that if they adopt children that those kids will never ever get teased. That's a part of childhood. Kids are mean. What I'm saying is that is it any worse for a child to be teased for have gay parents than it is to be teased about being poor? Or if their parents are rednecks? Or a mixed race couple? I think to much focus is put on that fact that gay couples have sex with the same sex and the world thinks that's icky instead of looking at it as...here's this kid that parents for whatever reason didn't want the child. If a gay couple can provide it a safe and loving environment should that couple be denied that? More importantly should that child be denied that?

[darkangelism]

kids dont get teased that much for having interracial parents, i didnt at least.

But is it fair to knowingly subject the children to it, by allowing homesexuals to adopt kids?

[Vautrin]

It does happen DA. I imagine NYC being totally different from some small town hidden deep in the South - and stereotypes and prejudices are not limited to the US, but exist everywhere. Imagine you would have lived in a place where every American of non European descent is looked down upon. Your childhood would have been a lot different - even if you would have been exactly the same.

Poverty is also something kids are being teased for. Should parents who do not make at least $55,000 combined be forbidden to have children, or adopt children, because you would be knowingly suvjecting them to bullying? I don't think so. And kids will always find a reason to bully some other kids for. It does not have to a valid one. Any excuse the "culture" offers might be good enough.

[darkangelism]

i didnt grow up in NYC, i grew up in a smaller town that was 98% white.

[Vautrin]

Is that Oklahoma City? That is still no small town by any standards. I was more thinking of these spots on the earth with less than 5,000 inhabitants ...

[darkangelism]

no, i didnt grow up in oklahoma, i didnt move there until i was 18, i grew up near albany NY, my town had about 15,000 people.

[Star]

small towns are the worst for gossip, teasing and bullying. i've lived in a few and saw it for myself. they can be nasty.

I agree that kids will get teased for whatever reason but, i still feel it's wrong for homosexual couples to be adopting kids. perhaps it's more my catholic upbringing more then anything else. I don't know but i do know that i feel strongly against it.

this is a topic that will always be split right down the middle. just recently, it became law that gay couples can marry here in canada. most people i know are against that as well. I don;t think that this will one day be fully accepted by society in whole. it will always be debated.

[Ayla]

I went to school with a kid that's mom was black and his dad was white. They were good people and he was a good kid. The town's population was under 2,000. That kid got teased a lot. His playground nickname was OREO. He was always being told he couldn't do this or that by other kids because he didn't know what he was. To make it worse his name was Heath...like the candy bar. I was friends with him and always felt bad for him.

I grew up POOR. I always wore hand me downs a lot. I had some new stuff but not a lot. Myself and other kids like me in class were teased by the kids who looked like they wore a diffrent new outfit each day. We in turn teased them for it. It's the way kids are. If there had been a kid in our class that had gay parents...he would have been teased for it.

Religion shouldn't be the basis for denial of adoption rights to gay parents. As long as they are mentally stable, financially stable and whatever other requirements the state requires of heterosexual couples to adopt...then they shouldn't be denied based on their SEXUAL PREFRENCE. Some people like to have sex in groups, they like to wife swap...should their SEXUAL PREFRENCE prevent them from adopting?

[darkangelism]

well if the kids are subjected to that, yeah it should keep them from adopting.

[Ayla]

:umya:

I give up.

[Vautrin]

Originally Posted by Ayla

Religion shouldn't be the basis for denial of adoption rights to gay parents. As long as they are mentally stable, financially stable and whatever other requirements the state requires of heterosexual couples to adopt...then they shouldn't be denied based on their SEXUAL PREFRENCE.

Completely agree with you, Ayla.

[darkangelism]

lol, yeah we have different views on the matter and niether one will convince the other. The strangest thing is that here im more conservative with what i say, and in the muslim stamp thread im more liberal, there has to be a topic that we agree one.

[Just__A__Thought]

We voted today on a proposition to 'allow' marriage to be between two people vs. man/woman only.

I have quite a few gay friends and I've seen how it affects them as a couple. They can merge their bank accounts and put their houses and cars in both names, but their union is still not accepted by the society. Unless they go to an attorney and give each other legal rights to make shared decisions (health care comes to mind) then no matter how long they have been together or what property they own together they are still not considered a married couple.

The vague and untouchable/classifiable emotions and mind-set is still heterosexual. When one couple broke up last summer, one partner could not openly show his grief and pain because he knew that he would not receive the comfort or commiserations from his peers that he would have done had he been a wife or girl-friend whose partner had left him. That added a lot to his grief and his grieving process.

An open commitment to a partner that is sanctified by a church and recognized by the government and society puts a whole new spin on things and does - subtly or profoundly - alter the feelings of the partners. Why do so many people want to get married? How many men and women on this board alone have lamented about why he doesn't want to get married? Or why is she afraid of commitment? When they already live together as a couple. Because MARRIAGE - the open act of committing to another person and that commitment being recognized - makes a difference in our own feelings, whether we want to acknowledge it or not. It may be a very subtle feeling or a major life-altering feeling, but its there.

For many people of faith who believe that God said marriage is between a man and a woman I understand how a political ruling will hurt them. Not in a way we can itemize or touch, but in their own feelings. Marriage is something very special and when blessed by God it becomes Godly and to have the government and society throw that in their face by 'overruling' God is emotionally painful. To think that a church that they have belonged to, tithed to, sacrificed for, embraced, loved, etc. would be villified by society is painful and places a burden on their spiritual shoulders. Not unexpected by any, but unwelcome by all who firmly believe that homosexuality is a sin and homosexual unions should not be recognized.

People are going to be hurt no matter which political side 'wins' this argument -- but isn't that always the way?

[Duke]

Originally Posted by Ayla

:umya:

I give up.

rofl

This is a topic that you can argue to death and it will still likely always end up two-sided. Personally I'm not against gay marriage but that said, I'm not sure if I completely understand it. In fact, I don't understand how you can be interested in the same sex at all even though I know it to be the case. Of course I don't let this fact close my mind as you should allow people the freedom to choose. I know the above came off wrong but it is honest. :?

[sweetbilly]

Ok lets say we take sexual orientation, religion etc. out of the equation and allow homosexual couples to adopt children. What do we say when say someone from NAMBLA comes along and says "I want to adopt this child i love him/her and you can't prevent me from doing so because preventing me from doing so would be hypocritical, after all you allowed the gays to adopt!" Do we see and distinguish the difference then? Is there a diference in the eyes of the law? How can we allow one group be allowed to adopt a child and yet we refuse to allow the others?

unfortunately, i'll have to wait till later to address this thread a little more indepthly, just a little busy right now.

[Duke]

Personally I think the whole NAMBLA thing is a bunch of sickos trying to gain sympathy for a stupid cause. I know that sounds extremely ignorant on my part but how can a child know they love an adult as anything other than an adult? To take advantage of that is sick IMHO and offensive to me as a parent.

[Weiser]

Ok I didn't know what NAMBLA was so I googled it. Um, eww?

[Duke]

My thoughts exactly.

[Vautrin]

sweetbilly, being a (sexual) abuser is probably something that will prevent anyone, whether homosexual or heterosexual to adopt children.

[Duke]

The day they allow one of these lowlifes to adopt children is the day I drive my car through the lobby of the courthouse.

[Vautrin]

Originally Posted by Duke

The day they allow one of these lowlifes to adopt children is the day I drive my car through the lobby of the courthouse.

Don't forget the paintjob of your car then .