Don't know what to believe

[eveningstar]

:? My husband became very friendly with two ladies at church, to such an extent that he used to leave my side at church functions (even at church dinners ) to go and talk to these ladies , always under the pretence of some excuse such as he needed to talk to a male friend.

The two ladies in question enjoy my husband's company and always seem to turn up where he is. They make it quite clear that he's the one they want to talk to and basically ignore me.

After a great deal of discussion and under advice of a counsellor, he agreed that he would cool down those friendships especially as the two ladies in question are lonely widows and they could easily misunderstand his intentions. He promised that he would no longer talk to them on his own and keep his contact with them brief and to the point.

In spite of his promise, I see that the ladies are still very friendly towards him and when we do go to church functions, he becomes very restless and usually disappears after a while with some excuse or other. I think he misses the fact that we no longer sit with those ladies as we used to, so he goes in search of them (which he always denies, but that has happened in the past).

He is a highly-principled man and has always denied that he felt anything other than friendship for these ladies. He always declares that I'm the one he loves and that these friendships mean nothing to him. but I think his behaviour is unthinking and thoughtless. How does one solve this problem, I don't think he really intends ending his friendship with those women because he feels flattered by their attention and just makes empty promises to keep me quiet.

[Vautrin]

Hi, and welcome to the site.

Do you know what they are / were talking about in each other's company? It might be completely innocent, it might be that he likes the attention.

His unease could stem either from a conflict because of his own principles and morals, i.e. he feels that he should not neglect you, but at the same time he wants to help / be there for those ladies. But it could also be, because he knows what he is doing is not okay, yet at the same time does not want to be reminded of that. Likely becoming a bit hostile towards you if you bring up the subject, or remind him of his duties.

The fact that he does not give up, seeking contact with these ladies, despite all the promises, and that he still insists on using lies to cover up his real intention (the excuses, looking for male friends and all that), cast serious doubt. making the first explanation more and more unlikely.

As you have been to a counsellor, it should be fairly obvious to him that it is indeed bothering you - so there is no pretext to pretend otherwise.

Still, there could be nothing going on - but the fact that he would think he needs lies to keep in touch with those ladies is strange indeed, to say the least.

[eveningstar]

Originally Posted by Vautrin

Hi, and welcome to the site.

Do you know what they are / were talking about in each other's company? It might be completely innocent, it might be that he likes the attention.

His unease could stem either from a conflict because of his own principles and morals, i.e. he feels that he should not neglect you, but at the same time he wants to help / be there for those ladies. But it could also be, because he knows what he is doing is not okay, yet at the same time does not want to be reminded of that. Likely becoming a bit hostile towards you if you bring up the subject, or remind him of his duties.

The fact that he does not give up, seeking contact with these ladies, despite all the promises, and that he still insists on using lies to cover up his real intention (the excuses, looking for male friends and all that), cast serious doubt. making the first explanation more and more unlikely.

As you have been to a counsellor, it should be fairly obvious to him that it is indeed bothering you - so there is no pretext to pretend otherwise.

Still, there could be nothing going on - but the fact that he would think he needs lies to keep in touch with those ladies is strange indeed, to say the least.

Thanks for the reply. The topics they discuss are innocent enough, but it often involves quite a lot of bantering and to my eyes flirting. I need to add that we've been married for almost 41 years, and only recently has this sort of behaviour emerged. Perhaps I'm oversensitive, but I feel humiliated when he's so friendly towards them. He's also very fond of other women as well and likes talking to them quite a lot too. I would just like things to return to normal once again, where I don't have to wonder who he's chatting up now when he's left my side.

[Luba]

Hello, eveningstar (see my 'Welcome' post in "welcome to lifesupporters").

I'm married to a wonderful man who is very understanding. I'm in the opposite state where I am a friend with a man/ex-minister that I have known for over 25 years. I met and worked and hit it off with his wonderful wife and they were the ones that set the example of how a marriage should be. They were devoted to each other, laughed and constantly joked with each other. I had the good fortune of spending many of my days off with them while my husband worked. They set such an example for me that I started to grow up and pattern my marriage with theirs. Things turned around for the better in our marriage. I will be eternally grateful to God for sending those two beautiful people my way.

Now, he has lost his precious wife and I have lost the dearest, gentlest friend I have ever known. We still keep in touch. My Mother-in-law thinks it's inappropriate but my husband is okay with it. He knows we're just friends, and my husband knows how much I love and cherish him.

The reason I write all this is for you to find if you really trust him. I don't know you're husband, but if he just likes being around these ladies because they formed a friendship bond, I wouldn't worry about it. I think the more you resent this relationship and tell him so, the more he will start lying about it.

I would sit him down, tell him you love him, and how it hurts to sit alone. Either that, or just join in with them and relax if you can. They probably feel your resentment, body language says a lot. Good luck to you and your husband!

[eveningstar]

Originally Posted by Luba

Hello, eveningstar (see my 'Welcome' post in "welcome to lifesupporters").

I'm married to a wonderful man who is very understanding. I'm in the opposite state where I am a friend with a man/ex-minister that I have known for over 25 years. I met and worked and hit it off with his wonderful wife and they were the ones that set the example of how a marriage should be. They were devoted to each other, laughed and constantly joked with each other. I had the good fortune of spending many of my days off with them while my husband worked. They set such an example for me that I started to grow up and pattern my marriage with theirs. Things turned around for the better in our marriage. I will be eternally grateful to God for sending those two beautiful people my way.

Now, he has lost his precious wife and I have lost the dearest, gentlest friend I have ever known. We still keep in touch. My Mother-in-law thinks it's inappropriate but my husband is okay with it. He knows we're just friends, and my husband knows how much I love and cherish him.

The reason I write all this is for you to find if you really trust him. I don't know you're husband, but if he just likes being around these ladies because they formed a friendship bond, I wouldn't worry about it. I think the more you resent this relationship and tell him so, the more he will start lying about it.

I would sit him down, tell him you love him, and how it hurts to sit alone. Either that, or just join in with them and relax if you can. They probably feel your resentment, body language says a lot. Good luck to you and your husband!

I appreciate your honest reply and I understand what you're saying, but still it's hard for me to accept those friendships of his. I've always trusted him, but he remains a man, and I think those ladies are :roll: extremely fond of him and I'm not so sure their friendship won't develop into something more. Also I will never be able to hide my resentment when he leaves me at a function to go and talk to those ladies. It's as if he doesn't mind neglecting me, but he does mind if those ladies feel lonely or left out.

[Vautrin]

Originally Posted by eveningstar

Thanks for the reply. The topics they discuss are innocent enough, but it often involves quite a lot of bantering and to my eyes flirting. I need to add that we've been married for almost 41 years, and only recently has this sort of behaviour emerged.

40 years is a long time to be married. It also suggests that your husband is close to retirement age, or has just retired. And with that come a lot of changes, in living patterns, and perhaps in things people prefer to do.

He's also very fond of other women as well and likes talking to them quite a lot too. I would just like things to return to normal once again, where I don't have to wonder who he's chatting up now when he's left my side.

It is strange. Married for almost 41 years, yet he sees reason not to be straightforward with you? And after 40 years of marriage, there is not much one can hide from the other.

Also I will never be able to hide my resentment when he leaves me at a function to go and talk to those ladies. It's as if he doesn't mind neglecting me, but he does mind if those ladies feel lonely or left out.

Does he perceive it as neglecting you? Men can be completely oblivious to the most simple of fact (being one, I can attest to that). Sit him down, and explain (again) why his behavior bothers you, how it makes you feel. Resentment is not a good thing, and may threaten the enjoyment of the marriage for both you and your husband. Do bring up the flirting. What in your eyes may be flirting, he may consider to be completely innocent. Would he mind if you displayed similar behavior to a widower? Do the two of you display such behavior in your marital relationship, and do the two of you consider it to be flirting?

There are two basic solutions: either get involved in shared activities and such, or for him to cut the contact. The first has the obvious advantage of reducing the need for him to lie, and of course those shared activities might be fun for you as well. Of course, if he is flirting he absolutely needs to stop that. The second may well lead to more lies, resentment - even if he cuts the contact with these two ladies, other ladies' may come to the fore.

You mentioned functions. Is it oftentimes the case that you know noone there, or don't particularly want to speak to anyone?

Still neither of those solutions is ideal.

[eveningstar]

Originally Posted by Vautrin

40 years is a long time to be married. It also suggests that your husband is close to retirement age, or has just retired. And with that come a lot of changes, in living patterns, and perhaps in things people prefer to do.

It is strange. Married for almost 41 years, yet he sees reason not to be straightforward with you? And after 40 years of marriage, there is not much one can hide from the other.

Does he perceive it as neglecting you? Men can be completely oblivious to the most simple of fact (being one, I can attest to that). Sit him down, and explain (again) why his behavior bothers you, how it makes you feel. Resentment is not a good thing, and may threaten the enjoyment of the marriage for both you and your husband. Do bring up the flirting. What in your eyes may be flirting, he may consider to be completely innocent. Would he mind if you displayed similar behavior to a widower? Do the two of you display such behavior in your marital relationship, and do the two of you consider it to be flirting?

There are two basic solutions: either get involved in shared activities and such, or for him to cut the contact. The first has the obvious advantage of reducing the need for him to lie, and of course those shared activities might be fun for you as well. Of course, if he is flirting he absolutely needs to stop that. The second may well lead to more lies, resentment - even if he cuts the contact with these two ladies, other ladies' may come to the fore.

You mentioned functions. Is it oftentimes the case that you know noone there, or don't particularly want to speak to anyone?

Still neither of those solutions is ideal.

What bothers me about my husband leaving me alone at functions is not that I don't have anyone to speak to, but the fact that I think his relationship with these ladies is inappropriate for a married man. He likes touching ladies' arms when he speaks to them and he also likes complimenting them on how good they look.

When I told him that I thought he was being too friendly towards these ladies, he said it would only be inappropriate if he had sex with them. There was nothing wrong in being good friends with the opposite sex and you could converse with them when and where you wanted to, according to him. He did later promise to cool these friendships, as I said previously, but I still have my doubts.

Do you think men resent it if they're requested to break off a friendship because they feel their wives are trying to dominate them? Do they then do the opposite just to spite their wives? I know I'm generalising now, but if it were me I wouldn't hesitate to end a friendship if my husband felt it was damaging our relationship. I would really appreciate your point of view.

[Vautrin]

Originally Posted by eveningstar

What bothers me about my husband leaving me alone at functions is not that I don't have anyone to speak to, but the fact that I think his relationship with these ladies is inappropriate for a married man. He likes touching ladies' arms when he speaks to them and he also likes complimenting them on how good they look.

Complimenting them once in a while, is okay. Making it a regular habit is a too much. Also the touching seems to be inappropriate - but I am om a non-touchy country (the Netherlands), where touching anyone is either fake, or inappropriate.

When I told him that I thought he was being too friendly towards these ladies, he said it would only be inappropriate if he had sex with them.

Ummm... that really comes out of nowhere. Besides, inappropriateness starts way before that. He should know that. Did he say that calmly or with a bit of frustration or anger in his voice? If the latter, it may have been an exaggeration, exclaimed because of frustration. Still, that does not make the situation right.

There was nothing wrong in being good friends with the opposite sex and you could converse with them when and where you wanted to, according to him. He did later promise to cool these friendships, as I said previously, but I still have my doubts.

Do you think men resent it if they're requested to break off a friendship because they feel their wives are trying to dominate them?

Some men indeed do have these issues. However as you have been married for more than 40 years, it would have surfaced way earlier, if this was the case. It seems to be the case that he cannot or will not see his behavior as being inappropriate. And it seems that he cannot or will not see the effects it has on you, and your marriage.

Do they then do the opposite just to spite their wives?

I think he persists because he cannot / will not see his behavior and friendships as inappropriate. The fact that you are not happy about these friendships does, because of his persistence, not contribute to the marriage in a positive way, as he needs to come up with excuses (or at least that is what you feel, and that alone is sufficient cause to have issues about the behavior).

As it is the first time that this issue surfaces in the marriage, it seems unlikely that he consciously resorted to this tactic of "solving" a problem.

I know I'm generalising now, but if it were me I wouldn't hesitate to end a friendship if my husband felt it was damaging our relationship. I would really appreciate your point of view.

He perhaps does not see how it is damaging your marriage. He knows you are not too happy about these friendships, but he probably cannot fathom the effects it has on your thoughts, and on your marriage.

"Doubts are more cruel than the worst of truths", is what the famous French dramatist Molliere once wrote. Because even when he is certain that he is not doing anything inappropriate (i.e. fishing alone on a lake), you still have the doubts that he may be doing something inappropriate.

Talk to him, tell him how much you love him, and cherish the marriage but that you cannot dispel the specters created by his behavior.

[Duke]

Originally Posted by eveningstar

He is a highly-principled man and has always denied that he felt anything other than friendship for these ladies. He always declares that I'm the one he loves and that these friendships mean nothing to him.

I think this is the reason you should give him the benefit of the doubt.

I'm also a bit lost in this topic because it seems odd to me that this type of behavior would rear up after 41 years of marriage. Is this the first time you've noticed this type of behavior or has it happened before?

[eveningstar]

Originally Posted by Vautrin

Complimenting them once in a while, is okay. Making it a regular habit is a too much. Also the touching seems to be inappropriate - but I am om a non-touchy country (the Netherlands), where touching anyone is either fake, or inappropriate.

Ummm... that really comes out of nowhere. Besides, inappropriateness starts way before that. He should know that. Did he say that calmly or with a bit of frustration or anger in his voice? If the latter, it may have been an exaggeration, exclaimed because of frustration. Still, that does not make the situation right.

Some men indeed do have these issues. However as you have been married for more than 40 years, it would have surfaced way earlier, if this was the case. It seems to be the case that he cannot or will not see his behavior as being inappropriate. And it seems that he cannot or will not see the effects it has on you, and your marriage.

I think he persists because he cannot / will not see his behavior and friendships as inappropriate. The fact that you are not happy about these friendships does, because of his persistence, not contribute to the marriage in a positive way, as he needs to come up with excuses (or at least that is what you feel, and that alone is sufficient cause to have issues about the behavior).

As it is the first time that this issue surfaces in the marriage, it seems unlikely that he consciously resorted to this tactic of "solving" a problem.

He perhaps does not see how it is damaging your marriage. He knows you are not too happy about these friendships, but he probably cannot fathom the effects it has on your thoughts, and on your marriage.

"Doubts are more cruel than the worst of truths", is what the famous French dramatist Molliere once wrote. Because even when he is certain that he is not doing anything inappropriate (i.e. fishing alone on a lake), you still have the doubts that he may be doing something inappropriate.

Talk to him, tell him how much you love him, and cherish the marriage but that you cannot dispel the specters created by his behavior.

My husband has/d this strange idea (is it?)that men and women view infidelity differently. He wasn't angry when he said that men mean nothing by frequently engaging women in conversations or even by being around the same woman often. He feels a man can be buddies with a woman and there's nothing wrong with that relationship unless sex is involved. I think it gives him a sense of power over me to say that because he knows he's being fought over.

I have spoken to other men about this and they say they don't agree that these kinds of friendships are necessarily harmless.. To my way of thinking there must be some kind of chemistry involved which draws a man to a certain woman to make him enjoy her company. I begin to think a man's interested in me if it's obvious that he goes out of his way to talk to me quite frequently.

My husband becomes very irritated when if bring this matter up and I'm beginning to wonder if he's just trying to escape from facing the truth, that maybe he is drawn to that woman and can't help himself.

[eveningstar]

Originally Posted by Vautrin