Advantages of Marriage

[Merika]

I didn't want to thead jack Samson's post...so I was wondering....

I made the generic statement of both being single and being married has it's positives and negatives. OBVIOUSLY, this isn't a rocket scientist statement! LOL!

However, what exactly WOULD be the specific advantages of being married as far as anyone in here can see it?

There has to be some real good reasons or people wouldn't join online dating sites, go to clubs or go out of their way in any fashion to try finding the right person or their designated soul mate or whatever you want to call it.

What is the big expectation of fulfillment?

[Samson]

I maintain that without the constant, incessant barage from society making marriage a cultural norm, it would die a quick death. The advantages of being married have diminished greatly over time.

One of the most serious modern "problems" that have arisen that makes marriage an antiquated institution is the dramatic increases in life expectancy during the past 100 years combined with the falling birthrate. essentially, with fewer children to raise, the externalities that might hold marriage together have proportionally diminished.

In addition, greater lifespans mean that when we are 40, we can look forward to ANOTHER 40 YEARS OF MARRIAGE compared to the comparatively few years our ancestors with 50 year life spans may endure at age 40. Moreover, these longer years are also healthier. Essentially we are living twice, but are stiil caught up in social norms based on our half-lives.

[Duke]

I disagree but I do so from an optimistic standpoint. I have not yet been married, close, but no cigar. I do want to get married but not because of social pressure or any other excuse. I want to get married so I can spend my life with the person I love. I'm a romantic at heart and still believe that marriage is a sacred institution.

There's bumps along the way but the bumps are there whether your married or single. It's nice to have someone close that can help you through the rough spots. However, an unsupportive partner only makes matters worse.

I suspect you will see positive responses from those of us who haven't been through the blender from a broken marriage, and negativity from those who have and are currently suffering marrital stress.

[Samson]

Yes, I certainly agree that marriage is a concept most likely to be embrased by the "romanic." An entire multi $-billion industry has grow up to support this notion, and to contravert reality: 50%+ fail, and the 90% left are unhappily waiting until old age euthanises their relationships.

I don't think that when we wish upon a star, for someone to "help us through the rough spots" that we are anything but sincere. We all want this: However, the "sacred institution" rarely advertises, and certainly doesn't often mention just how many "bumps along the way" there are, nor is there the justifiably extreme emphasis upon just exactly how rough the "rough spots" will be over a period that is often expected to span over many decades. The mere recitation at the ceremony that the marriage will triumph "for better and for poorer" is almost flippant in the face of the realities.

And I do not advocate avoiding relationships out of fear that they may lead down the path of destruction. Certainly I hope everyone, including even Duke, can spend their lives with people that love them and return that love. But I am much more concerned about the underpublicized or purposefully ignored magnitude of their decision to commit their entire lives to what may very likely be more unimaginable hardship than they ever anticipated.

I know there are going to be those reading this post through their rose colored glasses, shaking their heads, thinking that love will conquer all, that more "hard work" will resolve the "bumps," and wondering what type of fire and brimstone filled marriage Samson must have. I'm just offering advise: Most have a long life to live, and like Arabess says, you only have one. We need to make VERY CAREFUL DECISIONS about with whom we may spend them. I'm advocating taking at least half the time you plan to spend with another and using it to make this decision; nott be months, or years, but perhaps decades.

[Merika]

For anyone reading......Arabess = Merika It comes with the territory of changing screen names.....

There is a concept that the person you marry will catch you when you fall. There are those within a marriage which know that very person who was supposed to catch you... ended up being the VERY person who pushed your butt off the cliff.

THAT is a very lonely feeling.

I think eventually, once the bitterness goes away, love once again becomes an emotion worth seeking and honing.

[Duke]

I've given your reply a lot of thought Samson and I just don't see it that way. I really don't believe it's because I wear rose-colored glasses either. I have been very close to marriage to a woman who mothered my child. I have never, and hope to never again, feel that kind of pain. The relationship was passionless and cold; I see that now because I can look at it objectively. It happened once; it can happen again, does it mean that if I give it another try that I'm a fool?

I'm on board with your statistic about 50% of marriages failing; in fact I think the number is higher now. As for the 90% unhappiness, I've been unable to find one article that supports that statistic. I also have trouble with the whole concept that our own mortality has a lot to do with divorce. You are not talking about an increase in life expectancy of 10 years or more; the statistics are likely to reflect an average increase of a few months to a year per gender. I've found 2 sources that basically state the following: "According to a report from the Centers for disease Control and Prevention, life expectancy rose to 77.2 years in 2001, up from 77 years in 2000. While life expectancies for men and women both rose, men's life expectancy, at 74.4 years was still significantly shorter than the 79.8 years women can expect to live." The closest resource I could find to add validity to the age claim was found here.

The above clutter aside, the average divorce age is between the ages of 25 - 39 according to this reference. If the divorce rate is so high at these younger ages then I have difficulty understanding how mortality enters into it.

Now on to what I do agree with. I believe marriage is a multi-billion dollar industry and anyone with a hand has it buried in the young couples pockets. A good friend of mine is getting married this Sunday and his head is spinning from the costs. Paying people to attend your wedding is ludicrous and if I were to have a "traditional marriage", I would pass the expenses on to the people who want to see it happen. Not enough of them, then me and chicky hop in the family truxter, drive on down to Las Vegas and get married at a drive through with Elvis Presly presiding. Then we blow the rest of our dough on stuff we want to do. If we're in debt, it's because we spent all the money on crap we wanted to do and the memories are ours for eternity, exactly the way it should be.

As far as bumps are concerned. Everyone has them and you either navigate them together or they break you apart, it's that simple. Being single doesn't mean the roads less bumpy, especially if you're a single parent. It's just nice to have someone to share it with when the time comes. That's all I meant in my previous post.

My last comment goes to giving marriage a lot of thought. Clearly I have and feel secure enough with myself to know whether or not it's the right decision. I did my homework, both mentally and physically. I've been through the gutter as well when it came to relationships but refuse to let them get me down. I know a lot of people, I know a lot of good people, and I know a lot of happy people. Some of them are married, some are separated or divorced, others are single.

In closing, I feel that there is hope for marriage. I don't feel the institution of marriage has been embarrassed by anyone except the fools who enter into it unwisely and divorce inside of a few years. I'm either an optimist or a fool, but I don't wish to be roasted or embarrassed for it. As you may have noticed, I'm a little passionate about my response. I tried to remove any type of emotion I may have had in this post but I believe I failed miserably. I also hope I didn't offend you Samson with my reply; I guess I just see it a bit differently. I'm really glad you're here to help keep some balance and add thought provoking content to the site. I've been working on my response for the last day and a half and I thank you for challenging me the way you have. I guess my response is more of a personal justification of my belief structure. Either that or emotional twaddle, you be the judge.

[Merika]

The portion of bitterness one feels from divorce is largely based on the number of years you were in it, the investment you made and the losses going out. Yes...those losses can be in living in a different house from your child for the first time....all the way to traumatic financial losses.

I have a friend who is out of this situation now since the children are adults. However, he got a divorce, not to his choosing, as a young man with four children. He lost his home, his vehicle and related assets. He then paid such a huge amount of child support, insurance, extra child related expenses....until he barely had enough money to live on.

In addition, he neither had the room (since he rented in a hovel) or the finances to keep his kids on the prescribed weekends or summer weeks.

He was/is still very bitter about his divorce.

In contrast....I've raised two children BY MYSELF with no child support. I have bitterness issues as well.

Neither of these situations have anything to do with lost love. Lost love happens. However, when your life gets totally torn a part and your kids suffer.....as a parent and adult....bitterness comes with the territory.

Just another angle.

[Duke]

I agree with you Merika but I don't think time is as big of a factor in post marriage troulbes. In fact, it's quite possible that the healing has already begun by the time the split is legal. I think most of the trauma comes from splitting the loot.

[Merika]

Yeah...that's very traumatic.... especially for a man. I think men base much of their identity on what they've gathered and accomplished financially. Splitting it up is very difficult.

I think the HARDEST part of the whole divorce though is just getting to the point of one person finally telling the other person "I'm leaving...it's over." It's hard to hear.....but I think it's harder to say.

[Duke]

I'll tell you something about men, we need nurturing just as much as our female counterparts. As men, we tend to ignore that need as it's not socially acceptable or not "manly" to show in the open. Behind closed doors though, it's different for most of us males. We need to be cuddled and loved just as much as any woman does. We just seem to want it more on our own terms for some reason. Our gender is not as emotionally plugged in as the female gender and it's a bit sad.

[Merika]

I think both males and females have distinctive roles. Sometime they overlap....sometimes they don't. I'm a firm believer in being who you HAVE To be for your family and laying the stigma's aside.

As a single Mom....I'll whine with you over your homework....I'll also whip someones A$$ if they come within your safety territory.

I'm not masculine....and men aren't feminine for being more sensitive. Again....we all be who we need to be to make our family work.
Personally, I think that's what makes mankind special! They evolve and grow into who and what they have to be.....based on circumstances.

[Duke]

Agreed but many don't understand it that way which is at the core of divorce IMO. Things are much different at the beginning of the courtship than after things "settle down". Pre-conceived ideas are shattered and so is the spirit within the marriage. Divorce is only a matter of time once this happens IMO.

[Samson]

As for the 90% unhappiness, I've been unable to find one article that supports that statistic.

Interestingly, I'm recalling something Dr. Phil states in "Relationship Rescue."

One of the best sources I've found of information for those considering divorce is "The Good Divorce;"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0060...63#reader-page

One of the interesting notes was that females emphasise the emotional elements of the mariages breakup and need to focus more on the material divisions, while men do the opposite, needing to focus more on the emotional to facilitate a more amicable divorce.

[Merika]

There is NOTHING kind and wonderful about a divorce. It's like a big car wreck and no one involved is happy about it. I don't think anyone can find warm fuzzy moments within either scenario.

I think part of the divorce emotional/mental anguish problem occurs when the whole thing just goes on and on and on.

The easiest way to handle a divorce is to say...this isn't working worth a damn...get a sheet of paper and make a list of stuff to split up.....get a calendar and color in who gets the kids what weekends and which holidays.....GROUP HUG....then walk out. Everyone will adjust eventually and life goes on.

The longer two people bicker and carry on....the more complicated the whole thing gets for everyone. Even if you have to live under the same roof for awhile.....do it for financial reasons....not because your playing 'married couple' any longer.

People think they are being kinder to the family by gradually parting ways...I don't believe that to be true. It's like watching a slow death.

[Duke]

I'd love to see this quote Samson because it really sounds off. Not only do you state that 50% of marriages fail but 90% left are in various states of discontent. I'm still unsure how the math even works on that one, I'm assuming it's 90% of the other 50%.

Even if that were a true stat, which I have trouble believing, what is it measured against? How many single are actually measured up to this stat too? I'd love to see a poll that actually talks about people who wish they could find a SO but can't for various reasons. I'd love to see a poll on their level of discontent.

I must admit that I've never read Dr. Phil but I have read a lot on how to be a parent to a newborn child. Of course this has nothing to do with Dr. Phil but it is another area that has it's own panel of "so called" experts. Try picking up a few of these books (some of which can cost hundreds of dollars) and show me two books that actually agree chapter and verse with each other. You won't be able to do it in parenting so I have a hard time believing that Dr. Phil is the God of relationships.

Many of these books, tapes, videos, etc., are guides for you to learn from and that's it. None are scripture and none are right for everyone.

[Merika]

I'm surprised 90 percent of married people are happy. Out of all my years on the internet....I've know precisely TWO women who were totally happy in their marriage. Star is one.....Cindy was the other one. Both are great Moms and homemakers. Maybe therein lies the key. Maybe it takes someone who puts their family before their own self and finds great fulfillment within their homelife.

I think if a woman isn't prepared to put her family, YES EVEN THE NEEDS OF HER HUSBAND - FIRST, then they should stay single. They've missed the whole point of being a wife and mother.

It is a job which is the BEST job in the world....when love is the leading factor.

I was a great wife when I was married. It wasn't my fault he was an overall AssClown. All men aren't like that though. Most men appreciate a woman who nurtures her family and considers it a blessing.....not a chore.

[Duke]

I'd have to say that most men don't love a woman who takes care of the house and family, most men expect it.

[Samson]

The easiest way to handle a divorce is to say...this isn't working worth a damn...get a sheet of paper and make a list of stuff to split up.....get a calendar and color in who gets the kids what weekends and which holidays.....GROUP HUG....then walk out. Everyone will adjust eventually and life goes on.

Merika, you're almost quoting "The Good Divorce!"

I'm still unsure how the math even works on that one, I'm assuming it's 90% of the other 50%

Well. You got the Title and Author............I'm just remembering what the guy said. You wanna boil stats, go right ahead: The point is the same, marriage is an institutional crapshoot where the odds are against you.[/quote]

[Duke]

The odds are against you in everything if you chose to look at it that way which I don't.

[Samson]

Well then,................... Good Luck!

[Duke]

Thanks

[Merika]

Originally Posted by Samson

Merika, you're almost quoting "The Good Divorce!"

I KNEW I should've written a book...or in my case a 3X5 'How To Divorce' card.

I think it's great when people still believe in marriage Duke. To me though....marriage is like getting botcholism. Once you do....your just a little hesitant to take the 'big bite' again.

[Samson]

marriage is like getting botcholism.

LMFAO,

Perhaps you still got that book in you.

[Merika]

I was going to start a website on 'How To Kill the Thorn In Your Side' and sell various 'kits'......but I was afraid I'd end up getting arrested. This was a couple of years ago....I'm less bitter and more mellow now. LMAO!

[Star]

Originally Posted by Merika

I think if a woman isn't prepared to put her family, YES EVEN THE NEEDS OF HER HUSBAND - FIRST, then they should stay single. They've missed the whole point of being a wife and mother.

It is a job which is the BEST job in the world....when love is the leading factor.

I was a great wife when I was married. It wasn't my fault he was an overall AssClown. All men aren't like that though. Most men appreciate a woman who nurtures her family and considers it a blessing.....not a chore.

both spouses have to put the other and their family first for anything to work in a marriage. at least that's been my experience being married. hubby and i put the kids at number 1 then our needs at number 2. we parent together then we get together. there has to be respect for eachother and trust in one another. and yes, love plays a huge factor because without mutual love, it wouln't work too well. one would always be doing more then the other for the other (if that makes any sence ).

hubby and i had our kids before we married. when we married, we were ready for the life long commitment. we knew we could do it because we lived together for 6 years with our kids first. i'm not saying that living together is the right thing for everyone; it was the right thing to do with us.

marriage has been a very good life for me and for hubby. we do love eachother to death and we try hard not to hurt one another. We're not perfect but whatever hurdle we come across, we work through it and try to fix it quickly. We have been through a lot especially in the past 3 years. Some are amaized we lived through it together and are still happily married. Stress can kill marriages. Financial troubles (we lost our business and had to revert back to living on a budget, the trouble we've gone through with our oldest daughter, and now an early grand-daughter and we're still in great financial strain), but we're sticking together and working through it together as a husband and wife and family. I think the only thing that would break us up on both parts would be infedelity. Neither one of us would be able to handle that one so the marriage would never survive that one. How could it? The trust would be gone forever.