The Human Race

Duke · 05-24-2005, 10:00 PM

I wasn't sure where to put this topic so here seemed the best choice.

I don't know how all of you feel, but I love the things we can do in this day and age but can't help worry for what is in line for us as a race, species, planet, etc. We can reach out and touch virtually anybody, anywhere on the globe (and outer space too) yet we can't beat famine, natural disasters or wars.

I've been single the past few years (by choice more than options) and have loved it but I do still look at women as I drive by. There has been more than one occasion where I was checking out the rear of a great looking body, only to drive by and notice she was maybe in her early teens. Just the thought of it makes me sick (no I'm not a predator or sexual deviant) but whenever it does happen I feel like a turd for admiring what I thought was an adult that turned out to be a child. I've also noticed that I went from being one of the taller men around (a shade under 6') to averrage height to shorter than the croud over the course of my lifetime. I'm not shrinking, the population is outgrowing me. I've been in a convenience store or McDonalds and was well over 2' shorter than many of the guys there, it's shocking.

Our youth doesn't look as youthful IMO as we did when we were their ages. Kids are becoming aware of their sexuality before they turn 10 instead of hitting puberty, some are even hitting puberty at or before 10. Is it just me or does it seem unnatural or constructed by us in some way?

I know that this is a time in History where Adolf Hitler would have felt most at home, his Aryan <sp> Race is everywhere you look. Hell, all he'd have to do is invade a high school instead of trying to take over the world.

Star · 05-25-2005, 06:05 AM

You're right Duke, kids today are developing earlier. The trends and styles they wear don't help either. They want to look older and they love older men to look at them for some reason.

Today's society isn't the same way it was when we were kids either. Kids today can get away with a lot more then we could back then so they grow up faster.

The environment and preservatives in our foods, I think, are palying a role with our kids development.

Vautrin · 05-25-2005, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star

Today's society isn't the same way it was when we were kids either. Kids today can get away with a lot more then we could back then so they grow up faster.

And here we have the whole discipline problem. If you let kids get away with more, they will try to get away with ever more. Parental authority does not exist as much as it did 30 years ago.

We have the illusion that they grow up faster, but the only thing they effectively do is make more mistakes at ever younger ages. Sure, they can learn from the experiences. But it can also seriously mess someone up.

I don't think the developments over the past 30 years are encouraging, or are easily reversible. As always, damage is easier to inflict than to restore.

Quote:

The environment and preservatives in our foods, I think, are palying a role with our kids development.

That is true. Hormone beef, causes girls to menstruate at younger ages, for example.

Star · 05-25-2005, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vautrin

And here we have the whole discipline problem. If you let kids get away with more, they will try to get away with ever more. Parental authority does not exist as much as it did 30 years ago.

Parental authority isn't always the case of a child going astray. It's more the system I believe. Parents try to enforce the discipline necessary but society is right there undoing what the parent has accomplished with their kids. I know this first hand.

Girls today dress like what we would've called it in our day, hookers. The pop stars don't help in this situation at all either with their skimpy outfits. They are role models to these girls and the girls will want to mimic that.

Things are way too accepted in our day and age as far as i'm concerned.

Vautrin · 05-25-2005, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star

Parental authority isn't always the case of a child going astray. It's more the system I believe. Parents try to enforce the discipline necessary but society is right there undoing what the parent has accomplished with their kids. I know this first hand.

You are right about that Star. But the thing is, not only the parents raise the children. Teachers do, TV stars do, internet does. Parents cannot undo the damage from other sources, and cannot control the other sources of parenting.

Quote:

Girls today dress like what we would've called it in our day, hookers. The pop stars don't help in this situation at all either with their skimpy outfits. They are role models to these girls and the girls will want to mimic that.

Pop stars are only role models, in so far you let children identify themselves with them. And that is something we have limited control over, of course.

Quote:

Things are way too accepted in our day and age as far as i'm concerned.

We agree on this.

Duke · 05-25-2005, 08:29 AM

I think children these days are influenced by a wider amount of stimuli than we were growing up.

Star · 05-25-2005, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke

I think children these days are influenced by a wider amount of stimuli than we were growing up.

I totally agree.

Rock · 05-26-2005, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Star

Parental authority isn't always the case of a child going astray. It's more the system I believe. Parents try to enforce the discipline necessary but society is right there undoing what the parent has accomplished with their kids. I know this first hand.

Girls today dress like what we would've called it in our day, hookers. The pop stars don't help in this situation at all either with their skimpy outfits. They are role models to these girls and the girls will want to mimic that.

Things are way too accepted in our day and age as far as i'm concerned.

I am no expert. But I do wonder if there is any hope given that the system causes children to go astray. I mean if it is the system then what hope do parents have? Regardless of parenting the system will corrode whatever is done so what is the point of being a parent? And what exactly is this system? Is it not just the collection of practices established by parents?

For example if girls dress like hookers where did they get the money to buy the clothes? Do these girls get money from their parents? If the parents do not approve of the clothing the girls wear then why do they continue to give the girls money?

In Vautrin's example who owns the TV? Whose house is the TV in? It is not the kid's TV or the kid's house. The parents own everything so why do they not control if the TV is watched and what is watched when it is on?

Duke · 05-27-2005, 02:45 PM

I don't really care what my daughter watches or does to a certain extent. I'd much rather have her see what she want's to see here, under my supervision, so we can discuss what she saw. I can also inject my views in there as a basis for my beliefs on right or wrong and hope that she respects me enough to follow suit.

I think much of the problem is that many kids (not all) are left to "learn on their own" or "learn with their friends" and it's all tainted by a young and in-experienced mind that only exists to have fun without responsibility. With this being the foundation, what chance does logic have?

The Law doesn't help because it does nothing to these kids and the media would rather watch Princess Diana get squashed against a tunnel pole than follow some kid through his/her punishment for setting an animal on fire.

These days it seems that we're lead by the media and policed by ourselves and slipping further away from "humanity" in the process.

It's sick really.

Star · 05-27-2005, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock

For example if girls dress like hookers where did they get the money to buy the clothes? Do these girls get money from their parents? If the parents do not approve of the clothing the girls wear then why do they continue to give the girls money?

In Vautrin's example who owns the TV? Whose house is the TV in? It is not the kid's TV or the kid's house. The parents own everything so why do they not control if the TV is watched and what is watched when it is on?

my oldest daughter dresses herself in skimpy clothes. she has done this from the time she was 13. I didn't buy her those clothes as a matter of fact, i would rip them up and throw them out. Fact is, kids will do what they want if they have no fear of authority no matter what the parents say.

Most parents set rules, teach their kids good morals and values but some of those kids just rebel and go travel the road that they were taught not to go on. In my case, this is what happened. We tried all resources available to get our daughter back on the right track without success. I am a good mother and her dad is a very good father as well. I know this because we have another daughter who lives what we've taught her and has the upmost respect for anyone. Sometimes, it just happens and it is out of our control.

This is where society comes in. The laws do not give us parents the power. The law gives the kids the power so they learn quickly that they can get away with their nasty behaviors and leave us parents sitting there wondering what the heck happened to our good child.

My daughter was the kind of kid that would never leave my side. I couldn't even leave her with a family member for a few hours, she'd cry for me the whole time. We never left our kids with babysitters, we did everything with them. I stayed home with my kids from the time they were born and we raised them out in the country away from all the bad things in the city. My kids grew up with countless daily hugs, kisses and i love you's. they're not afraid to show affection. Society got a hold of my beautiful first born little girl and never let her go. There isn't anything I can do to help her now except just sit here and wait for her to grow out of it (that's what i've been told) and come back to us.

Yesterday, on the news, they were showing a picture of a 19 year old boy that's gone missing. I felt really angry about that because when my 13 year old daughter went missing and I tried to have her picture in the news, they wouldn't do it. They pick and choose who's kid is more important. The wealthy get more attention and more help available to them then the average family does. It's really sad and sick.

I always say that having kids is like a game of russian roulette. You just don't know how your child will turn out when they start to venture out in the world. It happens to the best of families as does the worst of families. That doesn't seem to make any difference these days. that tells me there's deffinately something wrong with the system and society for this to be happening to good kids that are brought up in good homes with good loving parents. makes no sense to me.

Merika · 05-28-2005, 11:29 AM

My Mom and I were talking this morning about one of my older aunts who is so embarassed that one of her Grandkids got in trouble and everyone found out about it....until she didn't want to go to the family reunion.

I think there was a time when people just kept family secrets...a family secret. 15 year old girls were sent away to have babies and those babies were put up for adoption. Parents kept 'police problems' with their sons quiet. Couples kept their aurguments to themselves. People didn't talk about their dirty landry.....so to speak.

We now discuss it openly and it doesn't seem of a tabu as it once did. The big embarassment isn't there. So....maybe it's all the same....we just accept it and don't cover it up. Kids don't care as much because society doesn't make such a big deal out of it.

Just a thought.

Vautrin · 05-28-2005, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merika

We now discuss it openly and it doesn't seem of a tabu as it once did. The big embarassment isn't there. So....maybe it's all the same....we just accept it and don't cover it up. Kids don't care as much because society doesn't make such a big deal out of it.

Just a thought.

Not just a thought. A very important piece to the puzzle. And what is the impact / non-impact of the lack of embarassment most people experience? There are no one-dimensional answers to that, as people differ enormously.

Another thing:
For instance, in the Netherlands all major crimes (except murders but these are mostly accounted for by criminals) are on a downward trend for ten years straight. Most people feel as if it is evermore on the increase, which simply is not true.
I believe something similar can be said of the US. However, coverage time of chases, trials and such has increased dramatically, thus fuelling the belief that crime is on the increase.

It is very hard to maintain a tabu on sexuality or violence when our culture is full of both. If the average kid in the US sees x-thousands of deaths, murders and such on television, death becomes something wholly different from "death" in the tabued version.

Merika · 05-30-2005, 10:22 AM

I think the US has, without doubt, a very serious crime problem. However, it can't really be compared to another country because the STATS alone are so different. Just the size and population makes it quite a challenge to control. To make it more difficult, due to terrain, what laws make sense for a more urban area or city...make no sense for a rural area which is less populated with humans....but more populated with wild animals.

We also get many immigrants from elsewhere that their own country doesn't even want. EX: If you want to be in the drug traffic business....you move to the US. More money due to more people and less control due to so many people. Same is true for any racketeering (sp?) enterprise.

Interesting link: http://www.chicagocrime.org/map/ and that's only ONE of MANY cities.