Global Warming

[VachelVace]

Global Warming is dangerous
to me its a big deal there millions of thing that are distroing the earth,like

1. pine beetles the are distroing the trees witch .so less ocsagine and the only reason the tree papulation is dicreesing cause the frost does not stay long anoff for the pine beetles to die.
2. ozon lyer , the ozon lyer is thining from the gass of cars and factorise is carbon dioxcid .
3. plastic bags, um evry time i go out i see plastic bags littered on the ground so i say eather reacycle the bags our your own bag to a store.
4. littering, just hold on to you garbige and wait for a garbige can our recycaling bine.

whats your segestgen to a cleaner planet

[Vautrin]

- more investments in alternative fuels. Solar cells, wind energy, etc.

- decent public transport / car pooling.

- disallow shops from selling plastic bags, but allowing them to sell more solid bags.

[VachelVace]

your right

[IR_Efrem]

To me the driving force behind most of the problems in society is one thing, Greed.

To many people are taking on the attitude that it will not be my problem by the time that I am gone and they are doing everything that they can to get richer. The people that hold the true wealth on this planet will only do things that make them more money and they do not care about much else.

We all know what needs to be done to slow down the deterioration of our environment but there are not enough people that are willing to give up their comforts to do it.

I apologize for sounding so cynical, but I think that much more needs to change besides a little recycling and picking up trash. An entire society of people needs to stop and figure out what is important BEFORE we destroy it.

[darkangelism]

im a global warming skeptic, i see no evidence that this isnt just a natural warming period, but with that being said i drive a hybrid, and try to use as little energy as possible, but mostly to save money.

[IR_Efrem]

Skeptic or not, tell me how it is good to be destroying most of our vegetation. I don't want to argue about global warming, because my view on that is undecided. I honestly believe that mankind is indeed doing some sort of harm. I challenge anyone to find absolute proof that we are not doing harm.

[Duke]

Originally Posted by darkangelism

im a global warming skeptic, i see no evidence that this isnt just a natural warming period,

This comment makes me laugh because it's really the only comment that a skeptic these days can make that's general enough to state opinion without actually backing up your point. No offense meant da but the evidence that we are contributing to our planets warming trend is all around us. This is not to say we are the only factor in global warming but to refute the fact we are contributing to it is nonsense.

While it's true that lowering vehicle emissions will help that still accounts for only 35% of greenhouse gases, much of the remainder is provided by industry with a small percentage being natural factors such as volcanic activity, forest fires, etc. The really sad part is that we know trees are one resource that naturally filters carbon from the air yet we clear hectares upon hectares of them daily from all around the world (not just the rain forest).

Sure we can lower our emissions by driving cleaner cars but the cost of purchasing an alternative fuel car is not something that your average consumer can afford. Even if the price were to come down it would have to come down drastically to live with some of the limits that these vehicles impose. I live in an area that is pretty mountainous and I'd hate to get stuck in the middle of nowhere in shoebox with a dead battery and no qualified technician within 100 miles to change it out for what, around 6 - 10 grand?

If we're to embrace alternative fuel technology then government programs need to be put in place that reward car makers for producing cleaner cars and rewarding car buyers with major tax incentives and price breaks in insurance, maintenance, etc. The other issue is that the only vehicles that are mass produced are all fossil fuel so they will remain the cheapest vehicles to purchase until such time as a clear leader in alternative fuel emerges. The current crop of alternative fuel vehicles such as E85, Electric, Hydrogen, etc., all have their pros and cons such as performance, range, purchase price, maintenance, lifetime and lack of re-fueling infrastructure.

As an example, try owning an Electric vehicle that recharges via a wall outlet when you live in a high rise, forget it. All it's going to take is one smart@ss to unplug your bl00dy car to make you late for work every day. Of course this even assumes you live in a metropolitan area that has access to recharge your vehicle overnight which I'm willing to bet most apartment complexes do not (at least not in Vancouver).

I know it doesn't sound like it but I really do believe in alternative fuel but the problem is that it's too expensive and poorly organized at a government level. The only incentive to purchase a clean car these days is to save money at the pump but if you can afford one of these cars you can afford the gas to fill a Hummer every 6 minutes as well.

You want clean cars I have the recipe; make them cheap, make them reliable, and give us tax cuts for helping the frogs in Mullholland Swamp croak a little clearer.

[VachelVace]

Originally Posted by darkangelism

im a global warming skeptic, i see no evidence that this isnt just a natural warming period, but with that being said i drive a hybrid, and try to use as little energy as possible, but mostly to save money.

if you don't belive in global warming then way are you posting a coment and there is so much evadince that global worming is comming and did you even read the coment that ir_efrm rote.

[aunty honney]

your right rachel

[Dwoing]

Question: How can you "not believe" in global warming?
It's not a religion...

And even if you don't "believe" in global warming, you can't possibly disagree with the fact that we are slowly killing ourselves...

[Vautrin]

But Dwoing, if I hold the belief that oranges are purple, then that is still a belief. It may not be correct though.

[Dwoing]

true

[darkangelism]

i dont believe in the fact that humans are affecting the temperature of the earth any more today then they were 5000 years ago, how come the earth is warmer now in the last 20 years but not 100 years ago when we polluted more out of factories? or deforested eastern US over the last 5 centuries, created the sahara desert by deforestation?


sorry for the bad formatting, i really dont want to edit it to make it look clean,lol.

Here are some quotes from various scientists

"Timothy F. Ball, former Professor of Geography, University of Winnipeg: "[The world's climate] warmed from 1680 up to 1940, but since 1940 it's been cooling down. The evidence for warming is because of distorted records. The satellite data, for example, shows cooling." (November 2004)[5] "There's been warming, no question. I've never debated that; never disputed that. The dispute is, what is the cause. And of course the argument that human CO2 being added to the atmosphere is the cause just simply doesn't hold up..." (May 18, 2006; at 15:30 into recording of interview)[6] "The temperature hasn't gone up. ... But the mood of the world has changed: It has heated up to this belief in global warming." (August 2006)[7] "Temperatures declined from 1940 to 1980 and in the early 1970's global cooling became the consensus. ... By the 1990's temperatures appeared to have reversed and Global Warming became the consensus. It appears I'll witness another cycle before retiring, as the major mechanisms and the global temperature trends now indicate a cooling." (Feb. 5, 2007)"

• Robert M. Carter, geologist, researcher at the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University in Australia: "the accepted global average temperature statistics used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change show that no ground-based warming has occurred since 1998 ... there is every doubt whether any global warming at all is occurring at the moment, let alone human-caused warming."[9]

• Vincent R. Gray, coal chemist, climate consultant, founder of the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition: "The two main 'scientific' claims of the IPCC are the claim that 'the globe is warming' and 'Increases in carbon dioxide emissions are responsible'. Evidence for both of these claims is fatally flawed."[10]

• Richard Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Atmospheric Science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and member of the National Academy of Sciences: "There has been no warming since 1997 and no statistically significant warming since 1995." [11][12]"Most of the climate community has agreed since 1988 that global mean temperatures have increased on the order of one degree Fahrenheit over the past century, having risen significantly from about 1919 to 1940, decreased between 1940 and the early ’70s, increased again until the ’90s, and remaining essentially flat since 1998."

And some light reading, my view is more common then you may think, im just not influenced by the fearmongering media.


Dr. Tim Ball, Historical Climatologist On the real danger for Canada, global cooling Frontier Centre for Public Policy Climate of controversy Ottawa Citizen May 2006 Mr.Cool Nurturing doubt about climate change is big business August 2006
4. Global Warming: The Cold, Hard Facts? Ball, Timothy Canada Free Press February 2007
5. "High price for load of hot air". Retrieved on 2007-12-18.
6. New Zealand Climate Science Coalition - CALL FOR REVIEW OF UN IPCC
7. "A note from Richard Lindzen on statistically significant warming « Watts Up With That?". Retrieved on 2008-06-20.
8. "Presentation to Timbro". Retrieved on 2008-06-20.
9. There is no consensus on Global Warming appeared in The San Francisco Examiner July 2006 and in The Wall Street Journal, June 26, 2006, Page A14 10. Climate stability: an inconvenient proof Bellamy, Barrett Thomas Telford Journals May 2007
11. A Skeptical View of Climate Models Tennekes, Hendrik from Science & Environmental Policy Project SEPP - Science & Environmental Policy Project
12. Global Warming Natural, Says Expert Zenit April 2007
13. Russian academic says CO2 not to blame for global warming Russian News & Information Agency, January 2007
14. Russian scientist issues global cooling warning Russian News & Information Agency August 2006
15. Global Warming Science vs. Computer Model Speculation: Just Ask the Experts Capitalism Magazine, August 2002
16. Wisconsin's Energy Cooperative May 2007
17. On global forces of nature driving the Earth’s climate. Are humans involved? L. F. Khilyuk1 and G. V. Chilingar Environmental Geology, vol. 50 no. 6, August 2006
18. Letter to the editor The Hill Times, March 2004
19. Newsmax.com - New Study Explodes Human-Global Warming Story
20. The Cause of Global Warming and Predictions for the Coming Century Easterbrook, Don
21. Viewpoint: Get off warming bandwagon Gray, William BBC November 2000
22. The Tempest Achenbach, Joel The Washington Post May 2006
23. Discover Dialogue: Meteorologist William Gray Discover September 2005 24. Climate Change: A Natural Hazard
25. An Unrepentant Prognosticator Krueger, Mari Gelf Magazine, April 2007 26. Climate Science: Climate Change and Its Impacts National Center for Policy Analysis May 2006
27. M. Leroux, Global Warming - Myth or Reality?, 2005, p. 120 Global warning? Controversy heats up in the scientific community Robinson, Cindy Carleton University Spring 2005
29. Dr. Patterson Page at Carleton University
30. Scientists respond to Gore's warnings of climate catastrophe Harris, Tom Canada Free Press June 2006
31. Read the Sunspots Patterson, Timothy Financial Post June 2007
32. Wild weather ignites climate change debate
33. http://folk.uio.no/tomvs/esef/np070707.pdf
34. Models trump measurements Lawrence Solomon Financial Post July 07, 2007
35. Carbon Dioxide or Solar Forcing? ScienceBits
36. The Earth currently is experiencing a warming trend, but there is scientific evidence that human activities have little to do with it Christian Science Monitor April 2005
37. The Physical Evidence of Earth’s Unstoppable 1,500-Year Climate Cycle Singer, Fred et al NCPA Study No. 279, September 2005
38. The Denial Machine CBC's Denial machine @ 19:23 -

Google Video Link
39. Global warming is not so hot: 1003 was worse, researchers find Harvard University Gazette April 2003
40. Essay 1: 'Global Warming' as Myth A Parliament of Things
41. Influence of Cosmic Rays on the Earth's Climate Svensmark, Henry Danish National Space Center, Juliane Maries Vej 30, DK-2100 Copenhagen 42. Celestial climate driver: a perspective from four billion years of the carbon cycle and here In J. Veizer, , Geoscience Canada, March 2005
43. On the Fundamental Defect in the IPCC’s Approach to Global Warming Research Climate Science: Roger Pielke Sr. Research Group Weblog, June 15 2007
44. Climat: la prévention, oui, la peur, non (Translation from the original French version in L'Express, May 2006
45. The Increase in Global Temperature: What it Does and Does Not Tell Us Balling, Robert George C. Marshall Institute, Policy Outlook September 2003
46. Christy, John (2007-11-01). "My Nobel Moment". Wall Street Journal. Retrieved on 2007-11-02.
47. A Long Term Perspective on Climate Change - Heartland.org
48. Global Climate Change: A Global Climate Change: A Skeptics Perspective Presentation by William R. Cotton
49. http://www.climatescience.org.nz/assets/2006510223000.CSC_News_3.PDF The New Zealand Herald, May 2006
50. Testimony before the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works December 2006
51. Satellite Temperature data John Christy & Roy Spencer George C. Marshall Institute Washington Roundtable on Science and Public Policy April 2006
52. A Science--Based Rebuttal to the Testimony of Al Gore before the United States Senate Environment & Public Works Committee[dead links] 53. Enhanced or Impaired? Human Health in a CO2-Enriched Warmer World co2science.org November 2003 p. 30
54. Posturing and Reality on Warming Michaels, Patric CATO Institute October 2006 [/font]

[Duke]

da I just spent the last 20 minutes editing that mess so I'm certainly understating when I say that I'm not impressed. Next time around your post will disappear as that only takes me mere seconds to accomplish.

[IR_Efrem]

Meh, for every expert on one view you can find another on the opposite view.

So let me get this straight, lets skip the horror stories and rhetoric, and I want you darkangelism to tell me how it is a good thing to pollute the water, the dirt, the air and destroy the vegetation. No links to an experts view, I want yours.

[Duke]

To speak toward pollution it's exactly the same thing as filling a glass with water. Even though the tap is on and the water is running it still takes time to reach your desired temperature and a little more time to fill the glass. Yes man has been polluting prolly since he discovered fire but one fire does not create a hole in the ozone, millions do over the course of years, decades or even centuries depending on how much carbon goes into the air. When I moved to the Lower Mainland smog was not that big an issue. Now the only time I can see the North Shore mountains is on Christmas because all industry is shut down.

As for deforestation it's also true that we've been raping the earth of trees for years but it's only been the last 10 years or so when we've begun to understand why it's so harmful to the environment. You can draw any parallel such as knowledge in cancer prevention, aids, tobacco, etc., to understand the cycle from ignorance to understanding to general acceptance. The environment has really only taken center stage over the past 4 or 5 years so I'd expect to see this debate heat up more as we discover the extent of the damage we have done as a species.

I'm sure this is a debate that will rage on for years to come but my money is on the fact we are either the entire problem or accelerating a natural process; either way we are not simply bystanders in some natural geological event, we are contributing.

[VachelVace]

Originally Posted by darkangelism

i dont believe in the fact that humans are affecting the temperature of the earth any more today then they were 5000 years ago, how come the earth is warmer now in the last 20 years but not 100 years ago when we polluted more out of factories? or deforested eastern US over the last 5 centuries, created the sahara desert by deforestation?


sorry for the bad formatting, i really dont want to edit it to make it look clean,lol.

Here are some quotes from various scientists

"Timothy F. Ball, former Professor of Geography, University of Winnipeg: "[The world's climate] warmed from 1680 up to 1940, but since 1940 it's been cooling down. The evidence for warming is because of distorted records. The satellite data, for example, shows cooling." (November 2004)[5] "There's been warming, no question. I've never debated that; never disputed that. The dispute is, what is the cause. And of course the argument that human CO2 being added to the atmosphere is the cause just simply doesn't hold up..." (May 18, 2006; at 15:30 into recording of interview)[6] "The temperature hasn't gone up. ... But the mood of the world has changed: It has heated up to this belief in global warming." (August 2006)[7] "Temperatures declined from 1940 to 1980 and in the early 1970's global cooling became the consensus. ... By the 1990's temperatures appeared to have reversed and Global Warming became the consensus. It appears I'll witness another cycle before retiring, as the major mechanisms and the global temperature trends now indicate a cooling." (Feb. 5, 2007)"

• Robert M. Carter, geologist, researcher at the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University in Australia: "the accepted global average temperature statistics used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change show that no ground-based warming has occurred since 1998 ... there is every doubt whether any global warming at all is occurring at the moment, let alone human-caused warming."[9]

• Vincent R. Gray, coal chemist, climate consultant, founder of the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition: "The two main 'scientific' claims of the IPCC are the claim that 'the globe is warming' and 'Increases in carbon dioxide emissions are responsible'. Evidence for both of these claims is fatally flawed."[10]

• Richard Lindzen, Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Atmospheric Science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and member of the National Academy of Sciences: "There has been no warming since 1997 and no statistically significant warming since 1995." [11][12]"Most of the climate community has agreed since 1988 that global mean temperatures have increased on the order of one degree Fahrenheit over the past century, having risen significantly from about 1919 to 1940, decreased between 1940 and the early ’70s, increased again until the ’90s, and remaining essentially flat since 1998."

And some light reading, my view is more common then you may think, im just not influenced by the fearmongering media.


Dr. Tim Ball, Historical Climatologist On the real danger for Canada, global cooling Frontier Centre for Public Policy Climate of controversy Ottawa Citizen May 2006 Mr.Cool Nurturing doubt about climate change is big business August 2006
4. Global Warming: The Cold, Hard Facts? Ball, Timothy Canada Free Press February 2007
5. "High price for load of hot air". Retrieved on 2007-12-18.
6. New Zealand Climate Science Coalition - CALL FOR REVIEW OF UN IPCC
7. "A note from Richard Lindzen on statistically significant warming « Watts Up With That?". Retrieved on 2008-06-20.
8. "Presentation to Timbro". Retrieved on 2008-06-20.
9. There is no consensus on Global Warming appeared in The San Francisco Examiner July 2006 and in The Wall Street Journal, June 26, 2006, Page A14 10. Climate stability: an inconvenient proof Bellamy, Barrett Thomas Telford Journals May 2007
11. A Skeptical View of Climate Models Tennekes, Hendrik from Science & Environmental Policy Project SEPP - Science & Environmental Policy Project
12. Global Warming Natural, Says Expert Zenit April 2007
13. Russian academic says CO2 not to blame for global warming Russian News & Information Agency, January 2007
14. Russian scientist issues global cooling warning Russian News & Information Agency August 2006
15. Global Warming Science vs. Computer Model Speculation: Just Ask the Experts Capitalism Magazine, August 2002
16. Wisconsin's Energy Cooperative May 2007
17. On global forces of nature driving the Earth’s climate. Are humans involved? L. F. Khilyuk1 and G. V. Chilingar Environmental Geology, vol. 50 no. 6, August 2006
18. Letter to the editor The Hill Times, March 2004
19. Newsmax.com - New Study Explodes Human-Global Warming Story
20. The Cause of Global Warming and Predictions for the Coming Century Easterbrook, Don
21. Viewpoint: Get off warming bandwagon Gray, William BBC November 2000
22. The Tempest Achenbach, Joel The Washington Post May 2006
23. Discover Dialogue: Meteorologist William Gray Discover September 2005 24. Climate Change: A Natural Hazard
25. An Unrepentant Prognosticator Krueger, Mari Gelf Magazine, April 2007 26. Climate Science: Climate Change and Its Impacts National Center for Policy Analysis May 2006
27. M. Leroux, Global Warming - Myth or Reality?, 2005, p. 120 Global warning? Controversy heats up in the scientific community Robinson, Cindy Carleton University Spring 2005
29. Dr. Patterson Page at Carleton University
30. Scientists respond to Gore's warnings of climate catastrophe Harris, Tom Canada Free Press June 2006
31. Read the Sunspots Patterson, Timothy Financial Post June 2007
32. Wild weather ignites climate change debate
33. http://folk.uio.no/tomvs/esef/np070707.pdf
34. Models trump measurements Lawrence Solomon Financial Post July 07, 2007
35. Carbon Dioxide or Solar Forcing? ScienceBits
36. The Earth currently is experiencing a warming trend, but there is scientific evidence that human activities have little to do with it Christian Science Monitor April 2005
37. The Physical Evidence of Earth’s Unstoppable 1,500-Year Climate Cycle Singer, Fred et al NCPA Study No. 279, September 2005
38. The Denial Machine CBC's Denial machine @ 19:23 -

Google Video Link
39. Global warming is not so hot: 1003 was worse, researchers find Harvard University Gazette April 2003
40. Essay 1: 'Global Warming' as Myth A Parliament of Things
41. Influence of Cosmic Rays on the Earth's Climate Svensmark, Henry Danish National Space Center, Juliane Maries Vej 30, DK-2100 Copenhagen 42. Celestial climate driver: a perspective from four billion years of the carbon cycle and here In J. Veizer, , Geoscience Canada, March 2005
43. On the Fundamental Defect in the IPCC’s Approach to Global Warming Research Climate Science: Roger Pielke Sr. Research Group Weblog, June 15 2007
44. Climat: la prévention, oui, la peur, non (Translation from the original French version in L'Express, May 2006
45. The Increase in Global Temperature: What it Does and Does Not Tell Us Balling, Robert George C. Marshall Institute, Policy Outlook September 2003
46. Christy, John (2007-11-01). "My Nobel Moment". Wall Street Journal. Retrieved on 2007-11-02.
47. A Long Term Perspective on Climate Change - Heartland.org
48. Global Climate Change: A Global Climate Change: A Skeptics Perspective Presentation by William R. Cotton
49. http://www.climatescience.org.nz/assets/2006510223000.CSC_News_3.PDF The New Zealand Herald, May 2006
50. Testimony before the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works December 2006
51. Satellite Temperature data John Christy & Roy Spencer George C. Marshall Institute Washington Roundtable on Science and Public Policy April 2006
52. A Science--Based Rebuttal to the Testimony of Al Gore before the United States Senate Environment & Public Works Committee[dead links] 53. Enhanced or Impaired? Human Health in a CO2-Enriched Warmer World co2science.org November 2003 p. 30
54. Posturing and Reality on Warming Michaels, Patric CATO Institute October 2006 [/font]

So your saying that mother nature just wock up some day and felt like killing the human raise our do you not belive that nature exisist do you need proof of nature too?

[darkangelism]

sorry duke, you can erase, it i tried to make it not show up like that, but i couldnt make it work. you can delete it if you want.

Originally Posted by IR_Efrem

Meh, for every expert on one view you can find another on the opposite view.

So let me get this straight, lets skip the horror stories and rhetoric, and I want you darkangelism to tell me how it is a good thing to pollute the water, the dirt, the air and destroy the vegetation. No links to an experts view, I want yours.

do you live with no electricity, live off the land, do you grow your own food, i highly doubt it, you can say all you want that its not good, but you contribute just as much as every other person. So dont give me some how can it be good, when you go farm your own food with no technology and come back and tell me how its so bad, seriously my aunt owns a farm that uses no electricity everything is done by hand, and guess what my cousins say it horrible and tons of work.

In addition im fairly sure my carbon footprint is smaller then everyone else on here.

And no polluting probably isnt good but its been happening for thousands of years this isnt some modern thing where humans pollute.

[Duke]

So you admit that our carbon footprints are a possible contribution to the problem?

As for my carbon output, if I didn't have to drive it would be pretty low actually. I don't leave lights on, I don't use my oven all the time, I don't use a washer and drier everyday; even my computer parts are purchased smartly enough to allow for the lowest possible power consumption.

I do agree that pollution has been happening for thousands of years but I do not agree that modern day levels are on par with levels throughout history. If I were to guess I'd say the last 100 years are by far the dirtiest we've ever been and only now are we becoming fully aware of it.

[darkangelism]

no i dont believe they do, but im not being a hypocrite like most environmentalists and driving a big car and polluting like crazy

[Duke]

Originally Posted by darkangelism

no i dont believe they do, but im not being a hypocrite like most environmentalists and driving a big car and polluting like crazy

Now where are you coming up with this fantastic generalization? There is no way you can have any idea how much any one person pollutes so your comment holds no validity at all.

I'll let you in on another secret too, one does not have to be an environmentalist to care about the earth. While it's true I drive a big car it's because financially speaking, I can't afford a clean car. I try to contribute in other ways by limiting my driving, turning off lights, keeping my heat low, consuming as little power as possible, not littering, etc.

[VachelVace]

Originally Posted by darkangelism

no i dont believe they do, but im not being a hypocrite like most environmentalists and driving a big car and polluting like crazy

oh, so know you do belive

[VachelVace]

Originally Posted by Duke

Now where are you coming up with this fantastic generalization? There is no way you can have any idea how much any one person pollutes so your comment holds no validity at all.

I'll let you in on another secret too, one does not have to be an environmentalist to care about the earth. While it's true I drive a big car it's because financially speaking, I can't afford a clean car. I try to contribute in other ways by limiting my driving, turning off lights, keeping my heat low, consuming as little power as possible, not littering, etc.

oncle ken your my favorite person right know

[Luba]

Originally Posted by VachelVace

oncle ken your my favorite person right know

Hey, Vachel, I thought I was your favorite person!

However, I don't want to detract from the seriousness of this topic!

[Duke]

On a side note I would recommend that everyone plant a tree at least once in your life and try to commemorate the event by having your close loved ones help.

Dwoing and I purchased a live Christmas Tree one year and after Christmas was over we were given permission to plant it in front of the apartment complex I live at. Today this tree is well over 8 feet tall and growing healthily.

I really can't tell you all how warm passing by that tree makes me. It has cemented a moment in time where 3 lives connected, mine, Dwoings and the tree. If you've never done anything like this before I strongly recommend it because it is a warm memory that you will never forget.