In response to the front page article on michael.

RandomSkater · 11-03-2005, 12:04 AM

I didn't see a discussion on this elsewhere, so forgive me if there's already one going.

I just wanted to say that that's a sad story for someone so young...
But how come all the blame was on the other person(s).
Did they force him to drink the alcohol?

Duke · 11-03-2005, 12:31 AM

I'm not 110% sure that the blame for the drinking is resting on the others shoulders, thats a peer pressure issue, it's the fact that he drowned and died as a result.

darkangelism · 11-03-2005, 01:24 AM

i agree with random, the drinking part was his own doing, yes its tragic, but it is like if he drove drunk and got in a car accident and was in the same position. It sucks that he is so young and will have some lasting effects for his life, though i do hope he can improve a great deal.

Duke · 11-03-2005, 02:42 AM

I think both of you would feel a fair bit differently if you actually parented a child. Pretty much from day one when your child is born, you lose untold hours of sleep and experience anxiety when the nightmares come with your childs mortality as the central theme.

Then one day, 14 years later, your child goes to the beach with a bunch of older kids, there is alcohol present. He consumes some because he wants to fit in (happens all the time) and drowns then dies. The older kids were there supplying the b00ze, why did no one pull him out of the water?

There is such a thing as criminal negligence. I'm not sure if this is the particular case but if an older person can be deemed as the caregiver when the accident occured there is likely some legal ramifications should an accident occur.

Merika · 11-03-2005, 08:58 AM

It's interesting that the young people on the site feel differently than the parents here. I always want to blame my kid's friends for being the cause of getting them in trouble. Perhaps we DO need to accept, as parents, that our kids make their own choices or at least the friends they chose to hang out with.

However, in Dave's case....there SHOULD have been adults around who intervened. If I saw a teen or anyone else drunk on the beach to the point of putting their life in danger...you could BET on me saying something to the person, the lifeguard on duty or flagging a policeman....plus watching the situation.

Duke · 11-03-2005, 09:13 AM

Here here!

darkangelism · 11-03-2005, 01:21 PM

Im not saying that it isnt the other kids fault, im just saying that it is in part his fault. I am horrible with peer pressure so i know what its like to try and fit in, i think in some ways love blinds parents and they dont want the blame to fall on their kids, i dont want to use this case as an example cause i feel really insensitive if I do. Ill use a school shooting like columbine, people blame the parents, bully's, the media, video games for the kids actions, but in the end it is still somewhat the kids fault for getting in the situation.

Weiser · 11-03-2005, 02:17 PM

So what happened to the kid sucks, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Truth of the matter is, most kids in that position would have done exactly as Michael did. Young teens want to fit it, they are in an awkward stage. Now add in some older girls, on a beach, supplying booze. If I was in that situation you are damn right I would have hit the bottle. Hell I would of drank more than I should have just to impress those girls. I betcha Duke would have done the same. It's all about fitting in, and the sad part is, the others there should have looked after Michael. They didn't. Their fault.

Roast 'em.

Star · 11-03-2005, 02:44 PM

i agree. the older kids should've ben looking after the younger one. they should've made sure he stayed safe and got home safe.

I used to party with older people when i was a teen. My friends were anywhere from 3 to 5 years older then i was. they used to look out for me always and made sure i got home safely. that's just what real friends do.

Michael should've have been drinking. everyone knows that, he's too young but the fact is that at that age, you do experiment and it is a natural thing for a teen to do but, the older kids are to blame as far as i'm concerned.

where were they when he was drowning? that's what's puzzling to me. how could they of let him go into the water in the first place? were they all just sitting there laughing at him like it's a big joke?

these older kids need to be punished for allowing this to happen to a young boy. they knew better.

Duke · 11-03-2005, 07:21 PM

I really wish Dave would actually chime in on this topic.

Personally I view this pretty much the same as baby sitting. Sure the baby swallowed the rat poison but the baby sitter should be held accountable as the child was in his/her care.

Also, I'd like to state the fact that lots of kids get into small gangs or cliques, whatever, and if there isn't at least one level headed person in there then they run amuck. You don't see a lot of this Random because you seem to be made from a much finer moral fabric than a lot of younger people out there, especially in this day and age.

RandomSkater · 11-03-2005, 08:21 PM

I'm not saying that the people that were with him shouldn't be acountable.
Though, when someone gets to that age, though they still need to be looked after, they should have enough common sense and/or knowledge to know what can happen from getting drunk.
It's not like a baby that will eat something harmful, because the baby most likelly know better.

It's harsh, but it's the truth.
I feel very sorry for Michael's parents and the parents, the people he was with and their parents.
As DA said, in the end it's somewhat the kids fault for getting into the situation.
You reap what you sow.

On a side note, Duke, I have been brought up in certain ways but that doesn't mean that I haven't been around certain things.
I've seen the effects of alcohol, drugs, gangs and the like, and I've made some horrible decisions in the past.

Weiser · 11-03-2005, 08:30 PM

Out of everyone I have ever met (IRL) in my entire life, I can safely say maybe 5% of the would NOT have drank that alcohol. 95% would have. That's a lot of people. Like I said, peer pressure, older girlies, beach...it was so not that kids fault.

Stone · 11-03-2005, 10:02 PM

Humph, personally I think this discussion is rude and inapproiprate.

Where does a 14 year old get liquor? same question where does a 16 year old get it some moron adult either bought it for them or left it in the reach of minors..

Kids do try things & Experiment, it's common and they all learn from there experiences and mistakes, This boy as other kid's his age is young and even they THINK they can make choices for themselvs they can't and a unfortunate evet happened. a 14 year old can not make life choices and should not be held accountable for it. just like Duke said the "babysitter" statement and it is 100% correct.

I lost a girl very close to my heart last year due to a drug overdose, guess what 40 year old men fed her cocaine and herion at the age of 15, was it her fault... HECK NO, it was the stupid idot's who gave it to her. Trying new things and acting like an adult gives youngsters a sence of freedom and maturity. It's common.