I have to save my friend.

[Paul]

I'm upset and I've been crying. My best friend in the world is throwing his life away and I don't know what to do. I don't want to sit idly by and watch it happen but is it even my place to get involved? I've told him most of how I feel but is it enough?

I have a friend I met when we were both 21, I've never told him this but he's my best friend in the world and I love him. I love him like a brother loves his brother and a best friend should love a best friend. He's the rare kind, the one that shares your likes, shares your dislikes and shares your goals and values. He's intelligent, attractive and has an inspirational flow about him. The way he takes to a task and produces his best possible is simply inspirational, he's motivated me at times when nothing else could. I've never met anyone like him or as important as him before or since. Let's call my friend "S".

S met a girl when he was 23, she was 18. He liked her because she was quiet, kind and attractive. A month later she was pregnant. This was not exactly what S had in mind. Then, as expected, things began to change in thier lives over the next 9 months as they planned for the future and the baby. She pushed for them to move to another city in another province so she could be closer to her friend. They moved there, had the baby but the girl, (I'll call her J) became increasingly unhappy with where they were living and pushed to move back to the city where they met. She was becoming more angry during her interactions with him and yet assured him that once they moved back, she would be happy. They moved back.

Within 10 months, J completely changed. S tells me that she is unrecognizable from the girl he met, that he worries she is suffering from depression and he encouraged her to get help. Over time she became increasingly violent and he became extremely unhappy with the relationship. They fight about everything and they have no sex life, while I'm standing there she says that he won't "f@#$ me anymore". He tells me that she uses it like an instrument against him and replies to her that all her bitching at him makes him not want to sleep with her. He tells her he wants to leave. She flips out completely, breaks stuff, accuses him of trying to get her pregnant in the first place, of cheating on her. After she calms down he tells her he'll stay one on condition, she must seek psychiatric counselling for her depression and anger. She agrees.

At this point I meet up with them in the city where they live as I'm visiting my family. I'm warned right away by S that there are certain things I can't say around J or there will be problems, specifically if I mention any women. Within the first day I make the mistake of saying something about my gf, to which J immediately comments something along the lines of "stupid bitch". He tells me that he's increasingly embarrassed to be around her, she says extremely inappropriate things and makes rude comments in public which cause him to hide his face. During this time I'm not aware of the full extent of the problems, however I learn very quickly that she is extremely unhappy living where they are and wants to move. I tell them I can hook them up if they want to come to Hamilton where I am. After much fighting between the two of them (she wants to go to Montreal, he to Hamilton), they make the journey to Hamilton.

They've been her 4 months now, he's taken on a new job and we've started a company together. J however hasn't made much of an effort to do anything. She left the call center job she got, after a week and was let go from 2 other jobs. Now during the day, S comes over to my house during the afternoon because he's allowed 3 or 4 hours away from the apartment to work on our stuff. Any longer then that and he is accused of not spending enough time with her. The job he took on, and I with him, is as mortgage consultants. The other company we started is a property renewal project which will take some time to get going. The problem with working on any of our business ideas and drumming up business is that we're not really able to do anything because he's on a very short leash.

When they got here, I took them out to Quiznos to try the subs, which are my personal favorite. While we were in the restaurtant, J became louder and more rude as she expressed frustration with not being able to see some of the vegetables they put on the sub, although it states on the menu board what is on it. It got to the point where she was screaming for the girl to not make the sub and that "if she makes that f*#@ing sub, I'm just going to throw it back in her face." She made a big show of not eating it and telling everyone how much she hated the place. I hid under the table, I couldn't believe it.

At this point, for the past 2 months, she's been sitting at home on the couch. The only time of day he is allowed to leave is when the soap operas are on and even then he gets called during every commercial break. Yes, every single one. It's extremely difficult to get any work done when she calls literally every 10 minutes and on top of that, she spends the time accusing him of being out cheating on her, all the while I'm sitting beside him pouring over interest rates and business appointment schedules. I explain that in order for us to get work done, this is unacceptable... he fears she will be angry with him so packs up his worksheets and goes home after being away for just 2 hours.

I've tried to compromise, I go over there sometimes to make it easier on him. He says she's nicer to him when I'm there, but most of the time I'm not welcome. I've been standing inside the doorway, after being invited over and J having been told I'm coming, only to have her scream at him that he's not spending any enough time with her and that no one is coming over. So I put my shoes on and go back home.

He does all the work around the apartment, she is a complete slob. I'm not just being down on her and siding with him, these are facts I observe. He gets up at 6:30 am every morning when the baby gets up, to feed her and dress her. He loves his little girl very much, she's the most beautiful child, so happy and full of life and she's his everything. Throughout the day he maintains his daughters sleep schedule, makes all the meals and cleans/maintains the apartment. J on the other hand is an admitted slob and doesn't lift a finger. She does however complain about everything he does, including the food he makes, and interrupts the baby's naps often, sometimes in the middle of the night she will go in and wake her up because she wants to see her. S has to remind her that she's not a doll, she's a child and that when J does this, it causes more work for him as he tries to get her back on her sleep schedule.

And then what pisses me off the most, J hits him. It's so wierd to say this because you don't really imagine it happening, but she's extremely abusive to him and hits him, a lot and hard. I've watched this happen and was shocked at how he just stood there, I don't know that I could do it. She tells him that if he defends himself, that she'll call the cops and tell them that he beats her. At least once a day she tells him that she's going to leave him and take half of his stuff, that she will take her daugher away and he will never see her again. Once he says that he'll leave, she hits him more, calling him down to the lowest and saying she won't let him. She's the same size as him and he tells me that when she punches, it hurts a lot but he would never admit it to her.

In the past month she has been saying that she wants to move again. This time to B.C. where her mother lives, the same mother she hasn't seen since she abandoned her kids 10 years ago to go live out there. J tells him that she'll be happy once she's out there. We're just starting to get business going and get a few customers, some money has come in and we're excited about our prospects. She doesn't care, she screams at him because she's not getting her way. So on the side he gets some part time work with the navy, he's in the Navy Reserves but it's increasingly difficult for him to go there as she accuses him again of spending time time that he's there, cheating on her. When he put the phone down the other day to do his training excercises, he picked it up an hour later and had 14 missed calls from her. 14!!

On top of this, I'm concerned for the baby. I see so much of my mother in J that it scares me, because J is even worse. My mother was never happy wherever we lived, we ended up moving 25 times and I went to 7 different schools that I can remember. My mom hit my dad and even broke his arm once. She beat me on many occasions and used mental games to beat me down, it wasn't until years later after thier divorce that she realized all the bad stuff she did and put as through pyschologically, for which she apologized. I've conveyed all this to S. This child can not grow up in this relationship, it will have a horrible affect on her watching her parents yelling, seeing the violence and perhaps eventually recieving it, and hearing the things her mother says about her father. A couple days ago J even accused the baby of trying to make her mad by not taking her nap when she was supposed to, S told her not to be crazy, that the baby just had her sleep schedule messed up again and was having trouble readjusting. This sent warning bells off in my head. I'm concerned for the child.

I'm concerned for him, she's sucking the life out of him and he looks increasingly defeated. Yesterday was the final straw, she told him that they were moving out to B.C. by April 1st and he has basically resolved himself to complying. The logic behind it is flawed and is based solely upon consoling her. He is concerned that he won't make enough money here, so he will instead sell his stuff and move out there. I explained that it's crazy to think he'd come out ahead with this plan, never mind the fact that he'd have to spend at least $1000 to ship his non-working car out there. He just sits there with his head down. I can't sit by and watch her destroy his life and that of thier child, he's the one doing all the work anyway, I explained that he should get custody, he just looks sad.

Here's my dilemma, I don't know what I can do or what I should, if anything. She's psychotic and should be institutionalized as far as I'm concerned. He's constantly discussing the topic, obviously deeply hurt and concerned by the whole thing. I give him the advice I think best and say things that a best friend would and should tell you. I can see he thinks about everything I tell him, weighing it but I'm afraid that fear is overriding logic here. After discussing the things that weigh him down, he goes home, only to return the next day a little more beaten and accepting of his defeat. I try to encourage him and helped him acheive a goal by getting him to sign up at the local gym and attend with me every morning. He's been so happy about it for the past week until yesterday, when he told me that he's been accused of using the time to cheat on her with other women.

She needs mental help NOW. He and his daughter need to be removed from the situation. He knows this but then sometimes he'll make comments about how she used to be happy and how he's trying to save her. I've sat by and tried to support him but time is running out. I can just keep my nose out of it or I can help him, so I'm weighing my options. I know he hears me but he needs to be empowered to take action. So here's my problem, should I push the issue and try to get him to leave her for his and the baby's sake? I've looked into psychological persuasion and different things someone can do/say to get some someone else on thier side but I don't know if I should do this, even if it is in order to help him. I want to confront her and call bull**** on her ploys, but this may just make his time alone with her that much worse. If it comes down to it, I may just call the police on her the next time she's hitting him, or go over there and physically remove him and the child from the situation.

I want to hear your opinions, what's your advice on the matter? What do you think can or should be done? I'm not going to do anything stupid but I'm sick over this and dead serious about it.

[Vautrin]

Can you get your friend to come online and give his perspective on matters? Be it in a messageboard format, or even a chat. It probably will be far more beneficial to discuss things with outsiders than discussing things with you. He knows what you think, and how to handle your thoughts and opinions on the matter. He might be more open to outsiders.

That being sad, it is an awful situation to be in. Right now, it seems that he needs a fair bit of distance from her, to make sense of the situation, of what he wants etc.

Also it is a wise thing to check Canadian Law as soon as possible. I doubt that many of the threats (or perceived threats) are legal, to be honest.

[Paul]

He wouldn't be open to discussing anything here unfortunately. It's not the threats I'm concerned about, it's when she actually beats on him that makes me upset, that's what I would call the police about.

Yesterday he made the comment that leaving her would be a bloody experience, literally. I asked him if fear of bodily harm is a good reason to stay in a relationship.

I've just spent the last hour bawling, I'm extremely sad for the life of his child and what she will have to go through with a mother like hers. I'm crying for all the pain she will experience and could be spared.

I'm really upset and don't know what to do but I think I'm going to talk to him this morning. We have meetings to attend and work to do but I'm going to explain that I won't be helping him as long as he's just going to use the money he makes to abandon what we're doing here and prolong the agony for him and his child. I can't do it with good concious, I know it may hurt him but unless I take a stance on the issue, he'll have me be an accessory. I want him to understand seriousness of his situation and that I feel the only way to get across to him how much I care is to give an ultimatum: the partnership is off and no help from me until he takes care of his personal affairs.

I hope I'm doing the right thing.

[Vautrin]

As I see it, the sole reason for remaining in the relationship is his child. A child that is used as a pawn by J, to push her agenda. Add to that a lot of fears, instilled by her, and perhaps some ignorance of Canadian Law (I assume it is at least a bit sane on matters like this).

Try to find out, about the workings of Canadian law. What would happen, if J went to the other side of Canada with the child? Is that allowed? If you can dispel those fears, as they will probably be central to his reasoning. Which justify him putting up with this kind of behavior in the first place.

J's behavior seems excessive for a sane person. What is actually required by Canadian law to allow for (forced) investigations of mental health?

Talk to him, and focus mostly on the child. And the unhealthy situation the child is in, and that it only will get worse, if S accepts the situation as it is.
I don't know S, but if he comes from a background where similar fights have occured, then he is risking raising his daughter in the same environment again.

I can understand if you feel a bit double-hearted about the ultimatum. But his living condition is draining him, draining the business as well. I would not make the ultimatum yet, but persist in unraveling the reason(s) why he claims he puts up with the behavior in the first place.
And remind S of the future of his child.

Find out if spousal abuse / abuse by a partner has to be reported by the abused partner (in some countries that is not needed for an investigation). That might be a last resort, so you don't have to know that yet.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by Vautrin

What would happen, if J went to the other side of Canada with the child? Is that allowed? If you can dispel those fears, as they will probably be central to his reasoning. Which justify him putting up with this kind of behavior in the first place.

Great points, I'm definetly going to look into that. Perhaps Star and Duke know something about the Canadian laws in this matter? I don't think she could legally just take the baby, there would probably have to be a hearing into the matter once they seperated. Considering he's the one with the job and without a history or a criminal record (oh ya, did I mention she has one and isn't allowed into the U.S.?) then I think his chances in court are really really good.

When she told him she was going to take half of everything he had, he laughed because the laws aren't like that anymore, things are more equal now. It used to be that the woman could do that but not anymore, besides he doesn't have hardly anything. He doesn't care about having lots of stuff anyway. And on top of all that, he's being forced to declare bankruptcy so he won't have anything at all to take.

You're correct in saying his child is his priority. It's funny but even though I know he really loves his daughter, the issue of not seeing her never came up until our conversation yesterday. I think as he considers his options more, he just feels more trapped by the fact that he wouldn't have his baby. He adores her, and her him, he pretty much raises her by himself anyway so I'd love to get across the point to him that he should seek custody of her.

Originally Posted by Vautrin

J's behavior seems excessive for a sane person. What is actually required by Canadian law to allow for (forced) investigations of mental health?

Another great question, I think she would have to volunteer, unless she did something criminal.

This is really good advice that you have given me, I appreciate it so much right now. It's really hard to express how extremely upset I am by the whole situation.

I'm going to talk to him and and focus mostly on the child, as you suggested. He doesn't come from a background where similar fights have occured, his parents only had 1 fight before they divorced and it was non-violent. My parents have however, which is the hard part because I see ALL the signs and how badly this is going to end but he's still not quite sure and is trying to salvage what he can.

I feel bad for suggesting that I'd have to make an ultimatum but I was really trying to think about how to get through to him. However your suggestion that I should "persist in unraveling the reason(s) why he claims he puts up with the behavior in the first place and remind S of the future of his child". This is where I want to focus next.

[Vautrin]

Glad I can help a bit Paul.

If he is the one who has is the primary care-taker of the child, let him do whatever he can, to prove that, as the courts might be biased against fathers (due to existing pro-mum biases with small children); the task is to increase his chances to the max that he will get full custody. He needs to do everything he can do to strengthen his case.

If she does need to volunteer for a mental health check, that sucks. But, the abuse you mentioned might be enough to warrant such an investigation. The only thing that would be needed then, and that will be very hard on your friend, is that he files a report with the police on J.

Knowledge of the law is very important in these matters. Star will probably know quite a bit, and hopefully she will have a few suggestions too.

[Merika]

Here's my dilemma, I don't know what I can do or what I should, if anything. She's psychotic and should be institutionalized as far as I'm concerned

Sounds like something could have triggered some psychotic underlying problem after she had the baby. Could be the same reason why her mother didn't raise her own children since this is often times a heritary type of depression.

This girl needs help before she harms someone.....especially the child. He needs to investigate if she has any siblings with psychotic problems and if there is any information on the mother available. He also needs to get statements from people like you who has witnessed these episodes and keep a dated daily diary for reference later. Then he needs to go to the state and do whatever is needed to force her to undergo physcological testing and treatment.

If he avoids this....he is leaving his child in much danger. Chances are, she could very well be the sweet person he originally met, but this has gotten lost due to her mental illness. In the end....he would be doing her a great favor.

You might want to read up on some of this:
http://www.bcrmh.com/disorders/psychosis.htm

I had a very good friend who was completely normal until she gave birth to her first child. She was a school teacher, a Sunday School teacher and seemed fine until she had the baby. A few months later, she continued to show signs of weird behavior until finally she shot herself in the head. Luckily, the baby wasn't harmed. Her mother had done the very same thing when she had Andrea (my friend).

I wouldn't put this thing off. I would make my friend face up to the fact that his wife has a problem and it needs immediate attention.

[Weiser]

Dude....wow...

As I read this, I thought it had to be a story. It seemed unreal.

He needs to leave her and he needs to take the baby. When she hits him, does she leave bruises / marks? Get him to take pictures as proof. Call up a lawyer. My Grandma (the one I don't hate) was like that (abusive, physically and mentally) with her childern and husband. She seriously messed up her kids. My mom still goes to a shrink.

As for grounds for divorce in canada. He has a valid claim for it man.

Paragraph 8 (2) of the Divorce Act states that "Breakdown of the marriage" is established only if:
...
(b) Treated the other spouse with physical or mental cruelty of such a kind as to render intolerable the continued cohabitation of the spouses.

Like I said, get him to take pictures as proof and hire a damn laywer.

He needs to get out of that and get his life back together. I have a feeling with what he has said, that he could get sole custody. If he fears she will turn more violent, a restraining order might be needed. It sounds a bit much, but it also sounds like it is the only way. She has free reign of him right now as I doubt he will physically defend himself.

What ever happens, YOU need to do something.

[TKDLady]

I don't know anything about Canadian law but I agree with Weiser that you need to do something, especially if he won't. A child's life is in danger as far as I can tell. He is a grown man and could, if necessary, take care of himself as far as self defense against her but the baby has no such chance. Find out what the laws are and act before it is too late. If he is truely your friend he will understand.

[Paul]

I just got back home from spending a couple hours with him, we were doing some business so we had some time to talk. My stomach was in knots thinking about what to say but when we got on the topic for the third time I tried to make some points. Unfortunately I got choked up emotionally and couldn't speak well, I don't know if he noticed or not but he never said anything.

I told him that I was very upset all night thinking about his situation. He asked me why and I told him that his daughter can't grow up in those conditions. He wholeheartedly agreed with me but went silent. I almost cried saying it, it hurts me that much, but I caught myself.

It sucks, I feel horrible for talking so negatively about the subject all the time with him, however he's the one who brings it up most of the time. But I still feel bad. She's the one who says negative crap to him, tears him down when he tells her anything, tells him that his ideas won't work. I don't want to associate negativity with his time spent with me as we have made a habit of being very positive about our business, goals and ideas. Quite often though, when we talk about the negative things, I'm able to redirect the conversation back to a high note before it's finished, so he doesn't leave on a downer. I hope it's working.

My goal for talking with him was to find out certain pieces of information and apparently someone can be held for 24 hours on mental health grounds, for observation, and longer if they find a problem. I mentioned that it would be nice if she could get help and go back to the way things were but he told me that she made it very clear in some explicit terms that she would be doing no such thing.

We were discussing another relationship between 2 people we know that was really bad and the woman had done some questionable things. He thought about it a second and then said "well J's not that bad". I immediately reminded him of the physical violence. He conceeded with, "well... ya...".

We talked about the old days when we use to party, hang out and have a blast, we were best friends that did everything together. He told me how surprised he was when I just packed up and moved halfway across the country, we discussed why I did and how it was the best thing I had ever done. He went on later in the dicussion to tell me he wished I would do some of the things again, that we use to do, like have parties and hang out with people, we use to be pretty socially active. Nothing wild, I don't even drink, just fun times with people we know. I asked him why he wanted me to do those things, he said so that he could watch, he laughed andn said he wants to be able to do those things through me. I explained the error in his logic and that he could be enjoying himself too, that he's only 26 and he shouldn't think his life is over. He agreed.

I made a bold comment at this point and told him what hurt me was that it was going to take him going through hell and me watching for him to finally realize how bad his situation was and change it. He said "I know how bad it is, it's just that it would be just as bad to leave her as it would to stay." He had told me earlier that when he did try to leave her once, she went through a range of actions from violent to laying on the floor holding his ankle trying to drag on him as he walked towards the door. I asked him why he put up with it and he told me that if he ended it, J wouldn't leave anyway and also all his stuff was there, that there wouldn't be a safe way to part one from the other.

He also admitted it was because of his daughter that he was still there, at which point I reassured him that he couldn't let her grow up in that situation. We didn't get to talk about the legal issues, which I want to, but he told me that he would leave if it got any worse. I fear any worse and it will be to late.

We haven't talked about the beating/bruises issue since the first time he told me about it and that it hurt. He said that he'd have no qualms about clocking her back except he'd never see his daughter again, he doesn't feel it's right that she can hit him and he's not allowed to do anything. It makes him angry and he's scared that one day he might just slug her but he knows that would just make it worse, I think he feels trapped. I'll suggest that he should document/take pictures of bruises next time, to protect himself.

I adore his daughter, she's just over a year old now and is running all over the place. When I visit, she runs over to me and grabs onto my legs, wanting me to pick her up. I spin her around and we chase each other around the apartment until she's screaming and laughing.

I'd hate to see how she would turn out if her mother raised her, she already makes comments which shock me and make me very concerned. Stuff like "she'll be sleeping around by the time she's 14. I'm going to take her far away and she'll never see her father again." She makes these comments half laughing and smiling, like it's supposed to be something we'll laugh at and agree with. S and I were discussing how J says things all the time like how "I'll burn all of your stuff" or "I'll take all the money and just leave". Then she will take large sums of money and put it in her own account or buy useless garbage, then she wonders why he changed the passwords for his bank account, she feels insulted even, but he alludes back to the comments she makes. She tells him she's just joking/wasn't serious, whatever, just to get him to do what she wants but he tells me that everytime she spouts off at the mouth, she says things that shock him and he thinks there's a little truth in every comment. She doesn't even realize half the comments she makes, I told him she's got a random phrase generator running in her head and not much else, as she will make the most bizarre blanket statements with no proof and challenge you to disagree, arguing over the stupidest things. When she makes a comment about doing something drastic/dangerous, he mentions it and she says she wasn't serious or didn't say it. He tells me "if she's saying it, she's thinking it." I tell him that if this is the stuff that's coming out then obviously she's considering it subconciously.

I'm going to pay close attention to what's going on over there in case something serious happens. He made a comment today about a fight where she was going to call the police but he pulled the simm card out of her phone so she couldn't. I asked him when this happened and he played it off as "awhile ago" but the way he said it made me think it was within the past couple of days. Anyway if anything else happens I'm going to push for him to tell me so we can take action sooner rather than later.

[Merika]

Sounds to me like your friend is in great denial. Do you have access to any family members who can help you or shed any light on the situation?