Understanding Motives

[IR_Efrem]

My daughters mom has been making some very poor decisions regarding our daughters. She kept an abusive relationship for nearly 7 years with a man. Which means the girls were exposed to way to much crap. As luck would have it, the "crap" didn't stop with their mom divorcing this guy.

Unfortunately the one thing that has remained constant, is the continuation of mom involving our daughters with all of the adult issues, as well as not being able to set her personal feelings about me aside.

She isn't a completely evil person, I know she does her best in regards to financial support. They don't live in cardboard boxes and they never need for anything, ever.

Quick example: Mom enrolls our youngest in karate, after a few months of attending it's time for a tournament. Mom calls me "Can you pay for half of the tournament expense $200"? My answer "Sorry I don't have that right now and 1 week isn't enough time for me to come up with it" .... She answers "They are your kids to, you are a bad father because you can't give me the money, hell you're barely even a man...." I hang up, because I don't need to be insulted in such a manner by anyone.. (BTW the girls were standing next to her while we having this discussion - I heard them talking in the background)

Later that week I pick up my children, my youngest daughter (age 8) tells me "Mom told me that I couldn't go to the tournament because, Dad's an a**hole and he wont pay for you to go"

I could give hundreds of such examples

I'm not one to buy into labels for issues but I've done alot of reading about alot of different things. I came across PAS (parent alienation syndrome). Whether or not it's an actual syndrome is not something I want to debate. Everything used to describe the "syndrome" hits the mark nearly %100.

Though my daughters do not alienate me at all. I've remained as constant in their lives as is humanly possible and I work hard to give them all their physical and emotional needs. We have an awesome father/daughter relationship.

Of course mom is a completely unreasonable person. Like I said, I can give hundreds of examples. If anything I say or do that is outside of her wants our kids get to hear what a looser dad is.

I could probably go on for hours and hours about all that has happened.

To answer a question or 2 before they get asked....

Our custody arrangement is - We Both have full Physical and Legal Custody

so where each child lives and visitation is left completely up to Us.
there is no court order that says where any of the girls should be at any given point and time.

The is No child support order between either of us.

I'm going to court to get this changed right now. It's obvious we cannot agree, so I'll let a judge decide.

I just don't know why on earth a mother is willing to put her own children (a person that is literally part of who we are) in such an emotional tangle. She has refused to listen to simple reason for, nearing 8 years now, about why this is a bad thing. No matter how tactful i try to be about the subject. The usual answer is "you can't control me" "I'll raise my kids the way I see fit" Even though it's all obvious and anyone can plainly see what it is and what it is continuing to do to them. I feel that it is abuse.

Thanks for listening
I'm new here and would like to say hello to everyone as well =)
If you have a question feel free to ask me, I am willing to answer anything at all regardless of what the question may be.

[IR_Efrem]

could a moderator please move this to

Abuse General (Adults Perspective)

[Duke]

No problem

Originally Posted by IR_Efrem

could a moderator please move this to

Abuse General (Adults Perspective)

Man that's quite a story. I gotta tell you d00d, I feel for ya. I also share a daughter with a woman who I don't think likes me very much and hasn't treated me the best over the past 10 years.

My situation has been changing though over the past year and I'll say, it's definitely changed for the better. I can't say as to the exact reason why it's changing as much as it is so I won't endeavor to do so. The only thing I can say is that last summer I finally realized that the reason people treat me the way they do is because I empower them to do so.

For the most part, people treat me pretty well because I'm not a bad guy (as far as I know) and I love my daughter like no other thing in this world. Unfortunately, my ex didn't think I was such a great dad (or something) and would continually treat me like an insect. Last summer I finally had enough of it and built a impenetrable wall in front of this type of behavior. The entire confrontation got really ugly but I made my point and that was pretty much the end of that nonsense. I'm not sure if this or the events that followed are directly responsible for why things changed but I can say I no longer dread having to talk to my ex and as of late, I've started to enjoy it and joke around with her a bit.

I do agree with your beliefs there is some sort of residual feeling or perhaps contempt that she feels for you which is part of the fuel she uses. What she needs to understand is that not only is it inappropriate for her kids to witness, they may ultimately resent her for her actions.

If your looking for understanding here my friend, I have a bottomless supply of it.

If your looking for insight, I haven't the foggiest idea why its so hard to split a child amicably. Sorry if I haven't helped here but this is an all to common issue (as I'm sure you know) with no clear answer, at least, none that I've found.

[TKDLady]

I am sorry to hear of your problems IR_Efrem. I don't have any experience in the situation in which you find yourself but I do have children, well actually adults now, but I know you don't show your a$$ in front of them especially when it involves the other parent. I have plenty of friends in similar situations and I have seen the results with respect to the kids. A lot of them end up with some type of problem. Keep reassuring your girls that you are there for them no matter what there mom says. Sorry I am not more help. You have come to the right place to at least get a caring ear and hopefully a little peace.

[IR_Efrem]

Thanks for the kind words folks.

I have to agree on one thing for sure here Duke. I am indeed a bit of a sucker, I am certainly just to much of a nice guy. I don't argue cuss and fight with my ex, but looking back I know I've let her use me. All of the "can you take the kids" on even a moments notice, and I was like "hell yes i will take them". I totally enjoy having them with me. There are plenty of other instances where I just *let her have her way* because 1 of us has to be an adult, and I knew if I didn't then the girls would have to hear more. Well the last couple of years have been the absolute worst when it comes to her tongue. Simply because I quit saying yes to everything everytime. We (my fiance and I) have a full family here, she has 2 boys 13 and 6 then there's mine 14, 12, and 8.

I just couldn't keep saying yes anymore to everything. There are more people here to concider than myself.

Something I didn't mention on the first post. My oldest has been living here the last couple of years. She and her mom had a complete meltdown and mom pretty much gave up on how to fix the real problem. Which she couldn't admit was all HER. So my daughter got put on pills that she had a bad reaction with. Well to sum it all up, she has been here and all the things that she was doing she is not doing anymore. Her grades went up, she has friends and everything about her is sooo much better. (with ZERO pills)

Mom wanted her back last X-mas, I disagreed because, still, the real problem was not fixed. Things got even worse..

Every detail I'm giving here has a FULL story to go along with it, I could literally write for hours just on a few things that happened.

Well like I said perhaps the court will make her stop doing this crap..

I'm giving my lawyer his retainer tomorrow or the next day and we are getting the motions filed, etc etc

Hopefully this doesn't take to awful long.

Again thanks and have a good night folks

[Duke]

That's the problem really, some of us guys are held hostage by the ex because we believe it's in the best interests of the child. We sit back and take all the abuse in the world because all we want is the most time possible with our children. The problem is that this isn't fair to anyone and the only person reaping any kind of rewards is the control freak calling the shots.

I was going to add in my original topic that I felt it was only a matter of time before your kids were living with you but kept that to myself. If I had a nickel for every time I heard that exact phrase said to me, I'd be a millionaire.

Anyway, I think your on the path to righteousness my friend and I wish you all the success with it in the world. It sux when mom and dad can't get along because nobody wins. The sad part is that I think it literally robs a kid of their childhood because there is nothing innocent in the animosity filled world of my child, my way.

Good luck!

[Vautrin]

Yikes,

I can't say that I have been in such a situation myself, as I am not a father. But the example of your oldest child speaks volumes. If those changes happened, then it does suggest that she is far better of with you than with her mom - and if you bring it to the judges that will definitely count for you .

Mom wanted her back last X-mas? How did your daughter react to that?

I have the awful impression that the ex thinks the world and the family revolves around her. When that is not the case. Anyone can make a mistake - but she seems to prefer to carry on on the same track, when it is not such a good track.

Careful, though. She may actually straighten up her act, in order to prevent losing the case - or in an attempt to settle it.

And welcome to the site .

[IR_Efrem]

My oldest started playing an awful game....

In order to get on moms better side she litteraly started dad bashing (to mom that is)

Example of my daughters words to her Mom
It's so horrible over there - Sometimes I feel like I'm their personal slave - I never get to do anything - I'm so sad and lonely

When she was here she was normal and chipper..
My daughters responsibilites include - cleaning up after herself - doing dishes after dinner - cleaning her bathroom once a week - and clean her own bedroom.. that's like 100 times less than what i had to do as a child and i certainly don't feel like it is unfair

She even started to seperate herself from her friends and people at church with the idea of moving back to mom's house

She actually tried to manipulate the whole situation just to get mom to finally agree to let her move back in and to get mom to pay more attention to her. Of course, her Mom let her do it and tried to ambush me with the whole idea, saying all kids of *well intentioned things* then I found out the truth of the matter and my thoughts were, If she is going to move back it's going to be for the right reasons.

BTW getting the kids to live here isn't nearly as important as, mom just stoping this crap..

I'm on no power trip and I will be more than happy to listen to the judges ideas on anything that will avoid my daughters from having to live through this any longer.

The reason my daughter moved in with me was because mom didn't know what to do anymore... My daughters head was half bald from pulling out her hair (yes things got that bad at her moms house) Mom took her to a therapist and put her on 2 types of medication, which had her all wacked out. Plus she started talking about killing herself. She had no respect for her mother and was a little nightmare to deal with. She had Zero friends and absolutely no life outside her mom's house. Her grades were D and C level.

After 2 years here - Her hair is all grown back, she hasn't been on any medication the whole time. Her attitude is %2000 better, she is still a teenager and there are little teenager problems now, not "i feel like killing myself" She has 2 very best friends and is involved in school band plus her church. (With exception to a little slide backwards around christmas) Her grades almost all B's and a slightly lower grade in math (the one subject she truly struggles with).

Things must be horrible here huh?

I'm not saying I've done everything right in my life, trust me I HAVE NOT....

I just can't let her go back to the way she was.

Esp with watching my other 2 daughters slide slowly downhill in attitude and emotional state...

No way I would agree to let this just happen.

[Duke]

Just out of curiosity, have the other two children expressed interest in possibly moving in with you in the future?

[IR_Efrem]

The youngest is pretty much cool with anything - that i know for sure

Middle child - she flops on the issue because her life is there at mom's - but she did make the comment - life would probably be easier

My house is alot more structure, moms house, well they get away with tons there....

Hard choice for a child - how do you choose between parents anyway, ya know?

[TKDLady]

I am sorry you are going through so much. And also your children. They will be the ones to suffer the most unfortunately. Good luck with everything.