[Vautrin]

Originally Posted by sweetbilly

Like i said there have been many people to claim the end of the world is just right around the corner, they have done this for their own reasons and as far as i'm concerned they do no service to their faith or to God and i'm sure they will have to pay a price for the souls God lost because they acted on their own behalf.

Umm, and what are people doing now, when they claim the end of the world is around the corner? What are people doing now, when they are telling what God thinks? Which is blasphemy in my book.

God said NO man would know either the day or the hour of christs return but he did say you would know the signs and the age in which he would return. That is what i am discussing here. If you are looking for a date and an hour ...forget it cause it will never happen, NO ONE can tell you that!!

Can you predict with any certainty what a particular part of an atom is doing at any point in time? Nope. It has nothing to do with whatever is in the bible. It is in the nature of things. I have the advantage I can explain that philosophically, thus without the requirement of interpreting it correctly (which is sheer impossibility).

So once again the bible was right.

Nah. You did not make a claim. And if it was the statement that noone can know with certainty, that claim belongs to Socrates, in Greek culture. A man who even refused to write a single thought down, for fear of misinterpretation. A problem Christianity, and other religions still contend with.

I think it self evident the world is already in an utter state of moral decay today, i don't think anyone would disagree with that.

It is not self evident. The complaint has been as old as civilization itself. It does not prove a thing, it only points to certain prejudices someone who believes that holds.
Somehow, at least in some countries there has been progress. Slavery has been abolished in a lot of countries. Same with executions, and death penalty. A christian could easily make the argument that it is not for us to judge.
Religious freedom does exist in a large number of countries. Some countries have a form of social security (strange enough considered by lots of christians as wrong, unchristian, etc), which protects the weak and the poor.

So i don't think i get your point. However, once again the bible was right concerning this issue as well.

?
"I think it is self evident" = "Bible is right?" Please come up with an attempt to prove something, instead of "thinking", "guessing" and what not.

You can't read it at all if you have misinterpreted previous parts of the bible simply because that book is totally dependant on every word in it.

No. And what is misinterpretation? Most christians in the world hold that you misinterpretted the bible itself. So who is correct? More importantly, what is correct?

And some people simply just don't want to read it the way it was meant to be read, this is a pride issue not an interpretation issue.

Could apply to you too. Attacking others in this way, does not exclude the possibility that it includes your faith too.

]And as far as i'm concerned if they do not read the bible correctly they are a cult. Being in a cult is technically worshiping another God, and we all know worshiping another God is condimned in the bible. However, their beliefs aren't confirmed by fullfilment's of ancient prophices, mine have been!! That is the difference in this case.

So we get a personal definition of what is true and what is false? That is nothing less than cultic. And many christians believe, nay "know" that you are someone who interprets scripture incorrectly. Which only adds to your argument that your beliefs are effectively cultic.

I can't say i agree with either of those, but i will tell you that God himself commanded the slavery in this country to happen all the way back in Genesis. When Canan did something after the flood to bring sin back into the world.

Is this allowing for a reintroduction of slavery, just because the Bible allows for it? It is in flagrant contradiction with some of the Ten Commandments, nonetheless. The last time I checked slavery did still exist well in the 1800's in the Western world...
If Christians could not even agree upon the obvious point, that it was against the Ten Commandments to hold a fellow man in bonds, and thus against God, can you imagine the sheer impossibility to agree upon something less obvious than that?

You know that the people being spoke of in this prophecy are also the decendants of the jews that allowed christ to be crucified don't you?

And the point is? Are you blaming jews for anti-semitism?

I don't know anything about the Netherlands, but i'm sure they do not represent my faith as i do not believe in slavery or oppression of any human being.

Most christians would disagree with you on that score. Never mind the atheists.

However, i'm not going to interfere either if God commands that someone should go into slavery for punishment for killing his son and bringing sin back into the earth. Isn't it funny how if you don't read every word of the bible it dosen't make much sence?

It does not make sense.You allow for God to act contradictory to the unions He himself has made with Man. Which is unchristian in my book, and in the book of most Christians. Or do these unions have no meaning at all? In its most consequent interpretation, the Ten Commandments would be rendered meaningless as a result of that.

I am not a Roman Catholic, and i would just like to state that i reject their religon almost totally, the only thing we would agree on is that Jesus is the son of God.

And the tri-unity? The Mary cult?

This would probably be our biggest point of contention, i don't agree at all with that statement. I know alot of people claim their version is the correctly interpreted version however once again they don't have the gift of prophecy, and my faith does!

Which is perhaps a delusion. It may well be a false statement, to make up for the lack of proof in your faith too. All faiths/religions do that, to be honest, so your faith is not original in that department. Prove your faith has the gift of prophecy.

However, no matter how many times i prove it if you don't want to see it you won't believe it anyway.

Which is also classically borrowed from other faiths/religions of the past.

I recall several times in the bible where God himself commanded his children to kill the inhabitants of a city for what ever reason, and several times where he killed them himself. If you did not kill them wouldn't it be considered NOT honoring your lord?

Most of that was before the receival of the Ten Commandments. And after the Ten Commandments, you could just as easily argue that the killing of a man is against the Lord, even if the Lord himself ordered you to do so.
Remember Jonah?

If you did kill them wouldn't it be considered murder? So could it actually be that killing in particular situations is ok? I would venture to say yes it's just in certain cases. If you think that doing Gods will is just simply not kiling anyone you are wrong.

Interpretation and guessing, and making an unsubstantiated claim. Now present the proof.

Like God said "there is a time to love and there is a time to kill, there is a time for everything under heaven" That's not just a 1960's song, there can at times be extenuating circumstances which allows you to kill someone.

Interpretation again. Present some proof.

Seeing that God is perfect and never changing i don't suppose he murdered anyone.

Never changing? An assumption. The problem? That would be a limit to his perfection.

Your right, it holds true for ALL religous doctrines, good thing i'm NOT religous. I'm faithful.

That is the explanation a lot of religious people give. It does not prove a thing, or make them different at all. Many Christians here would claim you are faithful to the devil, by just what you have written in the above post alone. Does not prove they are right. It does prove that the whole faithful/religious differentation does prove squat.
A dog can be faithful too. What differentiates faithful from faithful?

Right again, however this time if the interpertation is correct it makes it a fact and not a proposition dosen't it?

Technically yes. But I have not seen a single proof for your particular interpretation (or other interpretations). Therefore to assume that any interpretation is factual is at least one bridge too far.

If we all made it to haven by democratic rule i guess hell would be a lonely place wouldn't it? Too bad God says that's not going to happen.

Interpretation, and going against your own interpretation rules. Makes sense.

If you believe in any God, whether you call him Alah, Jesus or whatever, only half of the people of this earth are even going to make it to any type of heaven and that is agreed upon by all sides involved.

In these times perhaps. In the past most of the major faiths did believe (how idiotic, I assume!) that God did not judge on religious creeds, but judge on the basis of what He saw. An argument that does not limit heaven's capacity to 50% of humanity at most.

The other half are going to suffer very badly no matter who they are or what they believe, and if you are an athiest your screwed either way.

That is nice. Again, interpretation. Incorrect interpretation, I dare say.

But if you show some proof (other than conjecture and guessing) you may convince me otherwise. Faith is not an argument. Numbers are not an argument.